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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 01:57

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You must run the IGN circuit to the -ve terminal of the coil; this is where the ECU gets its RPM signal from. The engine won't start without it!
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 02:09

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Are you using the early or late 22R-E ECU? I've only played with an 18R-GEU ECU and it has an IGN pin, but it has nothing about the coil. Have you actually looked at the codes on the circuit board or are you relying on your (probably inaccurate) manual?
The ECU also needs its own power source, which is the +B pin from memory. You should hook this up to the ignition (not the coil!) via a fuse and relay. Also make sure you have a really good ground - this gave me all sorts of grief when I wired mine up.
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 02:30

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I think I must have the later ECU.
What codes on the circuit board? it has a couple of stickers on the front of the box, saying 12pin and 6pin or something. I am just going on the post 82 wiring diagram in the back of the green RWD celica manual.
Is it earthed through the bracket that attaches it to the car? I have all the brown wires for the injector earths etc bolted to the manifold where they come off the loom.
The power is running from the constant power from the fuse box in the cabin, which I figure is coming through the main relay and fuses so it should be okay (???).
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Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 03:25

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Make sure you are getting fuel. Move the vain on the air flow meter with the ignition on, the pump should kick in? Next do as norbie says and get youself a ign signal. Once you have the IGN hooked up list for injectors firing when cranking or take a lead of one of the injectors and put a test pope on it ( No not the type you get a auto barn for $2 use an LED and a resitor 780 ohms or so) and check it is pulsing.
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 04:56

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fuel isn't a problem.
is there pin labelling on the inside of the case or on the outside?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 05:26

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On my 18R-GEU ECU, the pins were labelled on the circuit board (inside the case obviously). Same for the 5M-E from memory.
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 06:24

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I thought I had seen something like these before but couldn't remember when to find them.
Thanks heaps roger.
I will head home now and check it out, but i think that it is right. All the TCCS computers seem to have crank angle sensors and 3 plugs, I only have 2 plugs so it should be the standard old 22RE ECU.
I will let you know how I go.
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 07:54

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It seems the haynes manual is completely different with its wiring colours. anyway .
The ECU has the same pin configuration as the one in the pic.
What is the NSW pin/idle control valve, and where does it go?
Where does the STA pin go? is it to the starter motor plug?
From the looks of the pin diagram versus the 2TG etc it should be quite similar to the 18RG one, so if people can tell me what pins they wired to where I would be appreciative.
Sorry, I feel like I need someone to hold my hand while I am doing this.
I now have BAT to constant power and +B to the engine on power.
The battery is now going flat, typical.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 12:36

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The 2T-GEU ECU is pretty much identical to the 18R-GEU ECU. The connector plugs may be different but they have the same pins.
I don't think my ECU has a NSW pin, but the STA pin is meant to have +12v when you turn the key to start the engine. Basically it lets the ECU know you're trying to start the engine.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 21:36

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you really should also be using electronic ignition, and not points (performance increase is also HUGE over points!)
If you need an elec. dizzy, coil + ignitor gimme a PM and ill sort something out with you 
NB: ALL toyota ECU's have the pins labelled on the ECU circuit board. Everything from an AE101 4A-GZE to 2S-E to 22R-E to 4A-GE.... And the abbreviations are all the same too.
From memory, NSW = Neutral Start Switch.
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Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 30 September 2003 23:36

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STA is essentially the signal that goes to the starter motor solonoid. There are two ways to activate the fuel pump. Ie movement of the air flow meter flap and when cranking( because the air flow meter flap probably won't move enough).
NSW Probaly goes to the the air bypass valave or something. Most likely not necessary to get the engine running at least. The efi will work without electronic dizzy but as witzle says it is a great upgrade.
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 02:40

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if NSW is "neutral start switch", then this MUST be done correctly. This is the part which means that an auto camira can't be started while in gear. I reckon this could be part of the problem Andrew.
Witzl, do you reckon electronic ignition would give a consistent spark?
Our points dizzy fires cylinder four at about 5deg. and cylinder 1 at about 1deg.
Has anyone else found this issue?
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Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 03:43

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I think SteveM may be right. If this is the case you will most likely need to short this to earth to fire the injectors.
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 04:52

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nsw does jack shit on toyotas
its neutral start switch
on a manual car i think i recieves a start signal
try this
on the ecu there should be a pin call ig or ig-
turn on ignition
tap this wire to an earth very quickly on and off
this will simulate and rpm signal pulse to the ecu
yr injectors should now pulse or tick
make sure yr injectors arent blocked
another way to try this is to connect a points dizzy to the ig- or ig pin and spin the dizzy
this will give the signal to the ecu to pulse injectors
to get the coil to spark this ig or ig- should be connected to the neg side of the coil
and u should have 12 v to pos side of coil
if this works with the points dizzy and not with the elcectronic dizzy then u mihgt have a bad missmatch between dizzy coil and ignitor
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 09:13

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Checking through a few of the pin diagrams, and taking off the cover, my computer has the same setup as the 2S-E ECU listed on that enginepix page. I think the 2S-E and 22R-E ecu's are identical depending on whether they are auto or manual, that 2S-E diagram is for an auto by my guess.
So should I try to get hold of a manual computer instead?
Norbie, where have you run your power and starter signals from? (or anyone else for that matter)
I will hook NSW up to the same source as the starter signal. failing that I will earth it.
My fuel pump is not run from the computer, I have a separate fuel cutoff switch being run from the coil and the ignition switch.
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 09:59

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do not hook nsw upo to earth
just leave it unplugged
i have a 22re wiring diagram here on one iof my software from repco
it has now nsw switch
i dont hook them up and never get any probs
make sure u r gettin a pulse to the computer
get a correct diagram pin A10 has the signal from the negative coil goin to it
that means the signal from the dizzy goes to the negative coil
too
without this yr car will not spark of get injectors clicking
the auto computer should be fine
back then the computers werent smart enough so half the shit might not be needed
these are very easy to hook up
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 10:03

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i usually open the loom up
i connect all the wires which need ignition to one wire
which is to +b +b1 power to circuit opening relay
then i run all the wires thaT NEED START TO ONE WIRE
these are start to ecu and start to cold start injector
then i run the airflow meter wire to trigger the fuel pump
and the start wire to the circuit opening relay
then i run power to the injectors
and then the dizzy and coil wiring
this is most of all u need to get it running half desent
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 01 October 2003 12:09

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RA28midge wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 19:13 | Norbie, where have you run your power and starter signals from? (or anyone else for that matter)
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From memory I'm getting power from the ignition coil and starter from the actual starter solenoid. It's been a while since I wired it up though, at least 5 years I think!
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Location: Seattle area, USA
Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Thu, 02 October 2003 05:39

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If your ECU controls timing its alot harder.(digital)
If it doesn't you can get it to work.(analog)
You'll need the injectors, AFM, ECU, Coil, ignitor etc all from the same setup at first.
Depending on what your installing this into you'll basically have to wire up your own harness.
It's not that hard actually.
That Gif from Matti's site is a big help.
But it doesn't show the wiring diagrams for the relays etc.
I have several BGB(big green books) that show everything BUT they are in Melourne and i'm in Seattle for a bit longer.
My friend might let me borrow his and make some scans.
after the harness for the engine there is only about 6 wires that need to be ran.
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Fri, 03 October 2003 02:58

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Still no luck,
I have the loom, injectors and AFM off the same 22RE that the computer is off.
I don't think the injectors are firing, I am guessing there should be a distinctive sound coming from them, which there is not.
I have the STA pin hooked up to the little plug on the starter. and IG to -ve side of coil.
The computer clicks when I turn the ignition on but the engine just keeps cranking without firing.
Electronic IG might be required for the 22RE computer, maybe 18RG ECU's are okay with points not the 22R.
I will just have to wait for Karl to see if the ignitor helps.
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Location: Seattle area, USA
Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Sat, 04 October 2003 08:37

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I've just always used the 22RE coil and ignitor.
make sure that everything that needs 12+v has 12+v.
I seem to recall that there are 4 wires that need it. 1 constant, and 3 switched.
also the ECU needs the signal from the Dizzy in order to fire the injectors. dizzy - ignitor - ECU - injcetors
What type of Dizzy/Ig/Coil are you using now?
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Sat, 04 October 2003 08:44

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ok do u have 12 volts power to the injectors
get a noid light and check if the injectors are pusling
these ecus are so basic
check for power to b and b+ at ecu
check for power to injectors
power to coil
and earths then it should run if u have rpm signal
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Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Mon, 06 October 2003 01:04

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I thought I posted this the other day. But obviously not. If your system is from an auto the NSW may not be earthed ie leads to the nuetral/park switch on the manual systems this will be earthed within the loom and you would not have to worry about it as Side show suggests. Check that NSW is earthed by probing the ecu pin out and an earth point.
As side show suggest check you have power to the injectors and probe them with an led and resistor to check for pulse.
What impedence are your injectors? the 22re uses low impedence I think. Therfore ballast resitors must be wired in. Do you have ballast resistors. If your injectors are high impedence then make sure you remove the ballast resisotors. Check you wiring go through the earths and the power circuits make sure your relays are in and wired correctly.
Roger
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Mon, 06 October 2003 07:28

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Okay this is the wiring I have, I even went and bought a multimeter yesterday so I can check everything.
Ig to -ve coil, is receiving signal fine
STA is at the starter plug- receiving signal fine
BAT has constant power (12.35V)
+B has power when ignition is at on (10.5V)
N/S is earthed with .9 ohm resistance
There was no power being supplied to the injectors when I was cranking the engine.
The injectors have a resistance of 2.9.
I thought everything else was for accessories or already hooked up.
There is a thick wire that is black with a red stripe hanging from where I cut the loom. Is this supposed to have power?
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Mon, 06 October 2003 09:45

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Yes you are right that is the power supply to the injectors. I think it might be necessary . Wired it up and it coughs and splutters now, for about 5 seconds then dies. I thought the injectors were powered through the computer (carbies are so much easier to understand).
What would be making it switch off after a few seconds? are there any other wires on that plug that need to be wired up- I have now wired up a black to the starter motor for the cold start injector. if the AFM isn't getting power would the computer turn off?
It is also backfiring heaps, I know my timing is way out, hopefully this is the only problem, am I likely to damage the AFM?
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 00:40

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If it runs for a few seconds then dies, that probably means the injectors aren't pulsing but the engine starts because the cold start injector (CSI) is opening. After a few seconds the CSI shuts off then you have no fuel and the engine stops. I've seen this happen a few times so I suspect that's what's going on!
You really need to get a test light on those injectors and see if they're actually working. Another trick I used to use was to remove the distributor and turn it by hand - that way you can fire the coil without having to turn the engine over, and if the EFI is wired up properly you should be able to hear the injectors clicking at the same time.
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 02:30

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Well it is definitely getting some fuel because I blew the AFM off twice this morning. New undies required.
The injectors are getting a signal. I measured the voltage going across the plug and it was getting a "pulse".
I still can't hear a clicking though. I will give your trick a try this arvo Norbie.
I took number 1 spark plug out and it was wet with fuel, more than what I would expect from just the cold start. but I am too scared to crank it again.
The least likely point for backfiring to occur would be 0° BTDC (or TDC) right? or at a beyond TDC point?
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Location: Seattle area, USA
Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 03:01

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Where does it go?
There are atleast 3 wires that go into the ECU that need switch 12+. And the BATT has constant 12+.
Make sure that that injector resister has 12+ on one side.
Do you have a noid light?
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 03:13

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The black/red wire goes into the loom, so do 6 other wires that are also unaccounted for.
3 powers on the 18pin plug? I have 1 (2 if you count the start pin)
What I have wired up is listed above, There are 5 loose wires coming out of the 18P ECU plug that I figure aren't essential (speed sensor, A/C, EGR...).
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 03:56

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No my firing order is fine.
I will just disconnect the coldstart plug and see what happens then, if it still fires that will eliminate one set of possibilities.
I am getting sick of swapping batteries around!
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 04:07

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now I get what you are saying. The firing order is 1342, hence my confusion.
The car was running fineish on carbs and I haven't taken the dizzy out since then, it is just the timing has been adjusted since, so it shouldn't be that far out.
if I spent as much time on my thesis as I do stuffing around with this car....
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Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 04:13

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If you have just put the head on I would retime the thing from scratch.
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Location: Seattle area, USA
Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 05:57

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The nice thing about the factory manuals is that it has the specs for the pin outs from the ECU. I'll see if i can get you the scans asap. i can assure you it wont run without those 3 wires having 12+. BTDT
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 06:41

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I had put all the leads on the distributer 1 place further on than they should have been. silly boy. .
It now runs, doesn't blow anything up, but dies unless I sit there poking on the AFM flap gently. The initial idle is fine, I guess in the cold start phase, but then when it relaxes it fades out. I unplugged the coldstart injector and it would still run for 10secs or so, so I am confident that it isn't only running on the coldstart fuel supply.
When I open up the throttle it dies straight away too. I am guessing that it is running too lean???? How do you increase fuel for EFI? big screw on top of throttle body?
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 11:59

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Yep, sounds like it's running too lean. That usually happens because of a big air leak, so investigate that thoroughly before you screw with the AFM.
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Location: Northwestern Sydney
Registered: August 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 23:26

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I agree with Norbie, You can have the car wired perfectly but if there is an air leak in the intake pipe you'll get the back fire out of the AFM and bad erratic idle and stalling after thae car starts. This gave me all sorts of headaches unitl someone gave me the answer. Norbie, midge thanks
On the subject I just finished prewiring my 18R-GEU and ECU,
My Dizzy is electronic and runs to an igniter and the IG signal comes from the Igniter, Would this have been the standard setup of has a previous owner upgraded the dizzy?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Tue, 07 October 2003 23:33

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the standard setup was indeed electronic ignition with an ignitor.
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Location: Northwestern Sydney
Registered: August 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 00:49

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Thanks. The manuals I have show about 3 different setups non of which resemble what is in my car.
But It's running
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 03:30

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If I rotate the TPS so that it thinks that the throttle is open more than it actually is would it richen the mixture? By my reckoning it should.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 04:42

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No. The TPS is actually a 3-position switch and it has no direct influence on fuel mixtures.
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 08:30

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i think u will find that the 18R-GEU TPS isn't one of the lovely variable ones like on a 4A-GE. Its a 3-position crudder, signalling idle, off-idle and open throttle.
I'm on the lookout for one of the lovely fully variable 22R-E ones from a TCCS 22R-E.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: May 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 09:01

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Karl is correct, like I said it's a 3-position switch on an 18R-GEU. Some 22R-E's have a potentiometer type TPS, but I was under the impression this was only used for the auto transmission, not the EFI system. Could be wrong though.
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 09:01

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ok
then u have to make sure the idle contacts have continuity when throttle is shut
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Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered: January 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 10:23

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Heya Witzl,
i have me a 22RE TB with the 4 pin TPS... after seeign that Wolf one, i'm thinking of going with that (since it's smaller etc)..
you wouldn't happen to have a 50mm TB would you??
Cya, Stewart
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Registered: June 2002
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: June 2003
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:34

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How is the mixture adjusted with an EFI set up, is it all computer tampering or is there a screw somewhere?
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Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:46

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In an L jet setup the mixture can be adjusted in the flowwing ways.
Change the spring tension of the air flow meter tap.
Adjust the air by pass screw on the air flow meter.
fool the computer that it is running colder than it is by adjusting the resitance of the engine coolent sensor.
Adjsutable fuel regulator
different injectors.
A more complex way of doin it is to change the resistor array in the air flow meter with appropriately sized potentiometers to give finer adjust ment at different air flows ( not for the faint hearted )
in a TCCS system it would be more complex. you essentially need to hack the code in the rom dissasemble to work out wher the tables are and then start burning roms. I am not even sure this is possible with the TCCS system as I don't know if it has external or microprocessor internal rom.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Thu, 09 October 2003 00:43

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im very aware of the incompatibility of TCCS fuel control systems from difering motors, which is why i wont be using them. I have other plans.
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Location: Seattle area, USA
Registered: June 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Fri, 10 October 2003 05:51

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THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 08 October 2003 18:30 | i think u will find that the 18R-GEU TPS isn't one of the lovely variable ones like on a 4A-GE. Its a 3-position crudder, signalling idle, off-idle and open throttle.
I'm on the lookout for one of the lovely fully variable 22R-E ones from a TCCS 22R-E.
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How many do you want? 
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Location: Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered: September 2002
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Re: 22R ECU on 18RG (I have no idea)
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Sat, 11 October 2003 02:00
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it still won't run for more than a few seconds, it will rev for a bit but then it will just die.
Any further ideas as to what would cause this? electronics would be my guess...
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