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Evil_Foetus
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March 2003

MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:24

Okay, I've just had the mad idea of selling my nice RA60 and getting a MA61. I'd be looking at $3000 for mine, maybe a swap or an MA61....blah blah Can someone tell me what they reckon of these cars? How quick is a MA61 with the stock 5M-GE?? What are the key differences in an MA61 to an RA60, and is it worth it? (Thinking of the 1jz-gte upgrade) Also, whats easier? a 1jz into an ma61 or a 1g-gte into an ra60??? thanks guys [Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:40

funny how that is - you've gone through the exact same ideas I had originally was going to do an ra65 with 1g-gte. decided against it, got a ma61 with 1jz. stock ma61 has a 5m-e, not a 5m-ge. with the 5m-e, it's noticably faster than an ra65 (and an ra60 I'd imagine), but it's still slow. MA61 has IRS, ra60 doesn't (pretty sure?). ma61 also has a bigger engine bay, longer wheel base, power everything, fatter wheels, bigger brakes .... everything you want. Most of the same things have to be done for both conversions - engine mounts, zorst, IC plumbing, wiring - so you're looking at most of the same hassles for both conversions. Obviously the 1jz half cut is going to cost you more, but beyong that (and a couple of hundred in extras) the costs will be much the same. you can make a jza61 as long as you keep it away from sydney - they're getting too bloody common for my liking! [Report message to a moderator]

Allan
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:40

Stock 5M-GE good luck! more likely to get a 5M-E and once you drive a supra you will never willingly go back to a celica you will discover TORQUE and power options like Power windows, climate control all the good things in life and all i ask is why bother with a 1jz when theres the 2jz! displacement is your friend turbos are your lovers Allan [Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:44

and yeah, what allan said. if you've got an extra grand or so lying aorund, go 2jz. once again similar costs. you'll probably want the w58 behind it, unless you're an auto freak (note: the 6=speed 2jz box will not fit the ma61 without the aid of a large persuader and blowtorch) [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:46

thanks guys. i read somewhere the ma61 is around 0-100 in mid 8s. is this right for a 5m-e?? just a small concern before the 1jz or 2jz comes into play.... also, my celica is in great condition for its age, a few pin dints, tiny paint touch-ups in spots, and the bonnet is a bit fucked, but i could sell it for 3000. how much is a nice ma61 going to set me back?? EDIT: Does the ma61 come with a W58 gearbox stock??? [Updated on: Tue, 30 September 2003 15:48] [Report message to a moderator]

Intensevil
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:50

http://www.autotrader.com.au/ http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Home/HomePage.asp http://www.carsales.com.au/ http://www.drive.com.au/ Check these sites for them, wide selection hopefully [Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:54

yep, has a w58 stock, although there's debate that the later model w58s (behind the 2jz-ge and 7m-ge) are stronger... definitly newer in any case. nice ma61s can be had for $3500 if you're really lucky (redbook is full of shit), and can go for upwards of $6k (but I wouldn't be paying that). that's sydney prices anyhow, apparently they go cheaper everywhere else, just like everything - bloody sydney prices [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 15:57

righto, thanks guys. no-one wants to swap a silver one for a bronze RA60?? also, is there much speed difference between the 5m-ge and 5m-e?? my mate is itching to know... [Report message to a moderator]

Allan
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Tue, 30 September 2003 16:12

draven wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 01:44

note: the 6=speed 2jz box will not fit the ma61 without the aid of a large persuader and blowtorch

Has anyone tryed? this was said about the MA70 too but its been fitted in and the V160 dosnt look that much bigger.... not that i know/care im happy with my auto Razz

In such a basicly overpowered car is a manual a requirement? im shure an auto 2JZ-GTE would be more then fast enough and a lot more driveable

and as for 5m-e vs 5m-ge, well my warm 5m-e (in poor tune 63rwkw) is more then a match for a stock 6m-ge both in MA45's

Allan

[Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 16:14

5m-e : 115bhp, 145 lbft 5m-ge: 145-175bhp (depending on model), 155-175 lbft so yeah, quite a difference. not worth an engine swap imho, but a difference edit: manual is a must for me. I realise autos are faster down the quarter, and more pleasant in city traffic. if I wanted a fast quarter I'd get an 808 with a 13b-t if I wanted pleasant city traffic driving, I'd get a falcadoore I just love manuals, and wouldn't swap for an auto ever [Updated on: Tue, 30 September 2003 16:16] [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 16:14

okay its decided. im now looking for an ma61. anyone who knows one or wants to swap for a COOL brown ra60 let me know. thanks everyone [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 16:27

okay, does this sound right? 5m-e = 92kw/107 kw??? 5m-ge = 125kw??? seems a big difference.... [Updated on: Tue, 30 September 2003 16:29] [Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Tue, 30 September 2003 16:34

yep quite a difference [Report message to a moderator]

Nark
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Tue, 30 September 2003 23:18

draven wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 01:40

ma61 also has a bigger engine bay, longer wheel base, power everything, fatter wheels, bigger brakes .... everything you want.

AFAIK, the brakes are the same. Front calipers on the Supras are bigger, that's about all.

draven wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 01:40

Most of the same things have to be done for both conversions - engine mounts, zorst, IC plumbing, wiring - so you're looking at most of the same hassles for both conversions. Obviously the 1jz half cut is going to cost you more, but beyong that (and a couple of hundred in extras) the costs will be much the same.

With the RA60, you also have to convert to EFI which is a bit costly... My fuel lines cost I think $40/m and I needed 6m..... And an RA65 tank.

I'd like to present the other side of the coin. Not 'coz I love Celicas that much, but I do drive one so I might as well represent... Smile

Celicas with their shorter wheelbase are not as stable through sweeping corners, but it does mean that they're a lot more chuckable.
If you have a lose in a Celica, it's less likely to be as big as in a Supra.

It's a different driving experience. If that's important to you.

But for most people, they'll want the power and torque of the 1JZ or yummy 2JZ.

[Report message to a moderator]

Norbie
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Tue, 30 September 2003 23:51

draven wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 01:44

you'll probably want the w58 behind it, unless you're an auto freak Smile

(note: the 6=speed 2jz box will not fit the ma61 without the aid of a large persuader and blowtorch)

Not so. The R154 fits with minimal persuasion, and the V160 is no bigger - if anything it's slightly smaller. Some hammering may be required, but definitely no blowtorching.

As for RA60 vs MA61, it's a no-brainer really; if you can afford an MA61, there's no reason to stick with the RA60. Everything about the MA61 is better, especially if you're considering an engine swap in future. Smile

[Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 00:43

I see, thanks everyone.... I certainly stil love my RA60, and would like to keep him also but money is a bitch, and I have none... EDIT: Have you got a new baby Supra yet Draven?? [Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 00:44] [Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 00:51

If you can get another car, work on that and then sell the RA60. There is NOTHING worse than having one car and always be working on it. [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 01:20

justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 10:51

If you can get another car, work on that and then sell the RA60. There is NOTHING worse than having one car and always be working on it.

mmmmmm... two cars Evil or Very Mad

[Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:27

Serious dude, I got sick of either not starting something because I needed my car, or rushing something because I needed my car. The XX has been in the workshop for a year now, and while I'm pissed I didn't have the time to get it done, I'm not dependent on it [Report message to a moderator]

gtman
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:30

I just had my first two car hit with rego coming through for my black celica that hasn't been on the road for a few months, sigh..... [Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:32

Mine isn't regoed I figured it would have to go over the pits and get an engineers report anyway...whats the point [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 01:32

justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 11:27

Serious dude, I got sick of either not starting something because I needed my car, or rushing something because I needed my car.

The XX has been in the workshop for a year now, and while I'm pissed I didn't have the time to get it done, I'm not dependent on it Razz

yeah, i know what you mean, and thanks. something ill keep in mind when the engine swap comes into play....

ps. nice XX, was looking at the pics Evil or Very Mad

[Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:34

Haha, doesn't look like that now It had a good veneer...but was hiding some rather ugly secrets. No where to hide them now. [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:36

if you have a look on norbie's site he has an ma61 brochure scanned. 5me actually has 104kw, or about 140hp. ra60 has irs i think f series diff. ra65 is live axle i think t series diff. am pretty sure on this,was at a wreckers with 2 of them yesterday! [Report message to a moderator]

Nark
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 01:37

justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 10:51

There is NOTHING worse than having one car and always be working on it.

AMEN!

[Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:37

You have it back to front. RA60 is T-series live axle. SA63 is T-series IRS. RA65 is F-series IRS. [Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 01:37] [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:40

thats strange i took a pair of tail-lights off the ra65( to discover they're totally diff to an ma61) and looked underneath, it had a live axle diff, 21-rc and a w57 box. Will took the clutch pedal off an ra60 next to the ra65, which had the tail-lights i needed, but broken - and it appeared to be irs. [Report message to a moderator]

gtman
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 01:46

justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 09:32

Mine isn't regoed Razz

I figured it would have to go over the pits and get an engineers report anyway...whats the point Very Happy

Yeah, my black celica is not going through the upgrade process at the moment tho, its just been forgotten cause my nice shiny silver one is getting all the attention. I think it got jealous and shat its brakes to make a point Razz

[Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:57

An RA60 has a 21R-C, if it had an RA65 front it would have been something someone added. It would also explain why the tail lights didn't fit. [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 01:59

the ra65 i got the tail-lights off had ra65/21rc/w57 written on its engine plate on the firewall. and it was live axle. didnt look at the plate on the ra60. someone's obviously stuffed around with engine plates or something? [Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 02:06] [Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 03:02

yep ra65 always came with 22r-e [Report message to a moderator]

Norbie
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 03:26

V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 11:36

am pretty sure on this,was at a wreckers with 2 of them yesterday!

Where did you see an RA65? I've been looking for one for ages!

[Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 03:34

at alljap virginia norbie. Have a look for yourself! I went there with will twice this week and saw them! But hurry up, they're getting ripped apart by the day. Theres two blue ones (ra60+ra65) around the back of the lhs of the yard...looking from the street towards the yard. Also a white ma61 if ur really looking for something scabby. Most good parts gone, but 2 rear flares are stil there! [Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 03:35] [Report message to a moderator]

Norbie
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 03:51

Sweet. All I want is the diff, hopefully they have one left! [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 04:27

another question, how readily available are extractors for the 5m-e??? and what kind of power would they add?? [Report message to a moderator]

draven
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 04:54

the 5m-e is a boat anchor strapping on shiny bits of tubing wont make it anything other than a boat anchor - save your money for a new engine [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 04:58

lol, okay thanks greg. no shiny boat anchors for me [Report message to a moderator]

STR8 2.8
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 04:58

i second that and anyway, extractors for the 5me basically dont exist, custom job required waste of time and money [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 05:01

hey evil_foetus i have a complete 2.25 system for sale if st82.8 doesnt want it. $100. Norbie the only diff that was still in the car was the live axle in the "ra65" which is actually an ra60..but perhaps the f series irs one is in their stock somewhere? [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 05:05

V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 15:01

hey evil_foetus i have a complete 2.25 system for sale if st82.8 doesnt want it. $100.

Norbie the only diff that was still in the car was the live axle in the "ra65" which is actually an ra60..but perhaps the f series irs one is in their stock somewhere?

thanks dude, if (when) i get an ma61, and the 2.25 zorst is still for sale, its mine. thanks for the offer tho Smile

[Report message to a moderator]

Classique71
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 08:31

evil - if i can persuade my dad - ill try to bring up his immaculate red ma61 to ballarat ( unlikely for it is his BABY!) - or your welcome to cruise to colac here to see what you get when you get a good one .. he paid 9K for his about 2 and a bit years ago - from a dealership in howitt street of all things was bloody sweet - we traded a sunbird engined corona + cash for the supra - and came out with a super sweet machine its just been all cleaned up and detailed again - so ATM its looking tops ! Drop me a PM if you wanna come down to see it, this weekends a bit hard - but next is fine or during the week - ill have the GT4 looking tops then too - as the wheels will Finally be here after many screwups with performance's ordering system [Updated on: Wed, 01 October 2003 08:34] [Report message to a moderator]

Evil_Foetus
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 08:51

Classique71 wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 18:31

evil - if i can persuade my dad - ill try to bring up his immaculate red ma61 to ballarat ( unlikely for it is his BABY!) - or your welcome to cruise to colac here to see what you get when you get a good one ..

he paid 9K for his about 2 and a bit years ago - from a dealership in howitt street of all things Wink

was bloody sweet - we traded a sunbird engined corona + cash for the supra - and came out with a super sweet machine Wink

its just been all cleaned up and detailed again - so ATM its looking tops !

Drop me a PM if you wanna come down to see it, this weekends a bit hard - but next is fine or during the week - ill have the GT4 looking tops then too - as the wheels will Finally be here after many screwups with performance's ordering system Smile

wow stuart that sounds like one hell of a car.... if it ever comes to ballarat, let me know....

in the meantime, ill check the calendar, paydays and petrol tank and see whats going on in the upcoming weeks, thanks for the offer, ill let you know if i decide to cruise on up Very Happy

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Norbie
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Wed, 01 October 2003 12:18

V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 15:01

Norbie the only diff that was still in the car was the live axle in the "ra65" which is actually an ra60..but perhaps the f series irs one is in their stock somewhere?

I went over there this afternoon and it turns out they do have an RA65 manual with IRS and the exact ratio I want. They're asking $175 which is a bit steep but probably the best I'll get. If it's still there on the weekend I'll buy it.

[Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 12:19

did you see the car? If its a blue one still with the engine/box/diff in it - its a live axle [Report message to a moderator]

justcallmefrank
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 12:23

Beggars can't be choosers! [Report message to a moderator]

V8_MA61
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 12:24

yeah thats true...we dont live in a perfect world! [Report message to a moderator]

Norbie
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60	Wed, 01 October 2003 23:23

Yes I saw the car, and yes it has IRS. [Report message to a moderator]

Allan
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Re: MA61 vs. RA60

Thu, 02 October 2003 01:16

STR8 2.8 wrote on Wed, 01 October 2003 14:58

i second that
and anyway, extractors for the 5me basically dont exist,
custom job required
waste of time and money

Stock manifold is not too bad anyway just make the secondarys about 100cm and a decent collector

5m-e will never be the bees knees but people have got 500hp out of them with a large turbo Razz

being a realist thay can be decent with a little work as thay are VERY crippled in a ma61

Allan

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