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Registered:
November 2002
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 Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Sun, 05 October 2003 10:35
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Hi all,
I need to reduce the under bonnet temperature from my turbo manifold and dump pipe. My bonnet is also getting very hot above the manifold itself.
So, is ceramic coating (HPC) better than using a thermal wrap?
I know ceramic coating looks better than wrap, BUT it needs to significantly reduce the temperature. Somehow I think that the thermal wrap will reduce temps more than ceramic coatings
Shoudl I use the wrap or go for a coating?
Thanks,
Simon
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Sun, 05 October 2003 10:57
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keen to hear on this myself ..
Same problems to encounter
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Sun, 05 October 2003 10:58
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| TA22 GT wrote on Sun, 05 October 2003 20:35 |
Hi all,
I need to reduce the under bonnet temperature from my turbo manifold and dump pipe. My bonnet is also getting very hot above the manifold itself.
So, is ceramic coating (HPC) better than using a thermal wrap?
I know ceramic coating looks better than wrap, BUT it needs to significantly reduce the temperature. Somehow I think that the thermal wrap will reduce temps more than ceramic coatings
Shoudl I use the wrap or go for a coating?
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why not try both? the HPC will keep a lot of heat inside the dump pipe (resulting in higher exh gas temps near to turbo) - and the wrap will reduce the amount of radiant heat from the pipe?
or do HPC advise not using wrap?
also, but some h/duty stick on insulation onto the bonnet and right above the turbo, stick on some reflective insulator onto the bonnet insulation. You can get the former from Clark Rubber and the later from most speedshops. Is what i did - bonnet is only warm to touch, even if turbo is v.hot.
charles.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Sun, 05 October 2003 12:06
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they work in different ways, but overall the HPC should work better. (HPC 'extreme' coating that is, and coated inside and out)
my reasoning is that the HPC coating:
a) stops heat getting from the exhaust gas to the metal, by decreased heat absorbtion and conduction,
b) decreases heat transfer from the metal to the outside air.
thermal wrap is basically trying to form a heat barrier on an already hot pipe.
the HPC will last longer and keep things cooler..
for a reference, thermal barrier coatings (TBC's) on jet turbine blades may only be 0.05-0.1mm thick, but they reduce the metal surface temp by a few hundred degrees. so just becuase the HPC seems thin, and the thermal wrap is thicker, doesn't mean the wrap is better...
oh and another thing, i tested some 'High Energy' thermal wrap in one of my 1000C furnace to see what temp it is good for.... oops... it sort of puddled in the middle  (wasted a $1000 furnace tube  )
i think that the wrap is only good for about 400-500C max, after that it will start to melt together. you can even get it to start softening and melting with a lighter flame!!!!
if your dump pipe gets red hot, then thermal wrap will not last.
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Sun, 05 October 2003 20:23
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would suggest the HPC is better
i've heard/seen stuff about the thermal wrap rusting pipes pretty badly, so, it may limit the life of what you're trying to keep cool.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 00:59
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| thechuckster wrote on Sun, 05 October 2003 22:33 |
by thermal wrap i meant the woven mineral-wool/fibreglass/asbestos stuff (looks like the wide woven hessian stuff you find under old sofas and lounges).
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i'm talking about this stuff, i think it's what you are thinking about.
http://www.autospeed.com/shop/category_435/browse. html
this is what i bought for use at uni... and this is what melted.. i'm going in to uni tonight to turn off an experiment, so i will measure the temp in the tube where it melted  , get some real numbers on it.
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anyway, i thought the external HPC coating radiated heat quicker so something hot 'lost' heat faster? dunno - out of my price bracket anyway as thermal wrap's only about $50 a roll.
charles.
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aiui, it acts as a thermal barrier coating (TBC) in that it decreases absorbed heat, and has a large thermal gradient across it, ie it transfers heat slowly thru it, and the result is that the item that is coates inside and out is actually cooler, and transfers less heat to the underbonnet area.
the inside surface of the coating, in contact with the gas, will be at the same temp as the gas, as would plain metal pipe, but the temp on the outside of a coated pipe would be much less than a metal pipe. so with wrap, you are trying to mask a veyr hot pipe, but with the coating, the pipe itself is not as hot...
i think for the extra $$, the coating is the way to go if you want the item to last longer.. if it is a temporary measure (to test things out perhaps) then wrap is the way to go, but i wouldn't expect wrap to last very long.... i'll see soon!!
Cya, Stewart
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 01:49
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So far I have already been to a rip off merchant in Adelaide that charged me for what was supposed to be ceramic coating, but its pretty much a high temp paint that does nothing.
So sending it to HPC has me a little worried cause I want to be 100% sure its the way to go before I waste any more cash.
I'm not that concerned about the extra 1% power I 'might' get, I just want a much cooler engine bay.
I could put something under the bonnet to protect it, but its doesn't stop anything else from melting in my engine bay.
Who has had HPC coating done? What do you think?
Cheers,
Simon
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 01:59
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There is only one place to send your gear for HPC coating:
http://www.hpcoatings.com.au/pages/contact.htm
The guys here were very helpful and knowledgable when I got some items coated. Hi-temp paint is shit compared to this gear.
It is definitely better than wrapping your exhaust in some glorified nappy!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 02:07
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| Youngy wrote on Mon, 06 October 2003 11:59 |
It is definitely better than wrapping your exhaust in some glorified nappy!
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 heh heh.....
if you want to know if it is good or not, go to a race day at your local track. walk around and ask the guys who run sports sedans, clubmans, improved production etc, what they use....
i know of someone who had extractors coated 15 years ago.
what you will be wanting for the dump pipe is
http://www.hpcoatings.com.au/pages/hiperext.htm
HPC will not coat turbo stuff in anything else tho, as their 'lower temp' coatings won't last in the conditions.
do it once, do it right
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 07:02
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i take it back. 
the "High Energy Wrap" from autospeed melts at approx 800degC... it will probably be safeish to use on a hot dump pipe.
i still think the HPC is better tho 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 10:15
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HPC is the go - I couldn't shift this stuff with a bloody angle grinder  As yes, have a look at the pipes after a couple of weeks/months under the tape - yick! Well worth the extra $, and it sure beats having to replace rusted parts all the time!
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 11:40
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ok thanks guys. I'll get my manifold etc ceramic coated and hopefully it will end the under bonnet temp problems I currently have.
Simon
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 11:42
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mrshin,
in your opinion, how much did the ceramic coating reduce under bonnet temps?
Simon
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 23:30
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It did make a notable difference, although part of the issue was that I didn't get the turbo itself done, and after being given a bit of a workout, it has a wonderful tendency to glow bright red The main thing you notice is if you let the engine sit there running for a few minutes with and without the coating, put your finger a few mm away from the manifold, you'll definately know the difference!
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 23:55
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So how much should we expect to pay for:
- Intake pipe
- Extractors
Anyone with exeperience can give me a rough idea?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Tue, 07 October 2003 03:26
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My two cents worth. I have used both, individually and together on my GT4 and if there's a more heat prone enginbe bay out there i'd like to see it 
From my experience the wrap works better but you need a coupla layers. Problem is it heat stresses the metal and you can get a rust prob as well so you need the ceramic coating too. I used Competition Coatings who do a no nonsense coating that a lot of V8 supercar teams use. It's a two coat system and does pretty well as a insulator. Cover this with heat wrap and you get even better control of under bonnet temps and you don't have to worry about rust etc.
As mentioned earlier, if you are gonna do this them do it right
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Tue, 07 October 2003 13:29
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Agreed, I think I will end up getting the ceramic coating but am pretty sure the temps will still be a problem. Wrapping them after their coated will definately solve the problem.
Simon
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Tue, 07 October 2003 22:09
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I have found the HPC coating to be superior to any Heat Wrap bandaging for extreme high temp turbo application, having found that Heat Wrap lasted for one race only on exhaust manifold before melting and falling apart. You might try fabricating a crude heat shield from aluminium to shroud the turbo. Space it about 20 mm out to allow some air circulation. This has worked quite well to deflect heat away from the bonnet in my car.
Laurie D
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Wed, 15 October 2003 02:41
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I was worried about it so I ceramic coated and then wrapped
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thermal wrap Vs Ceramic coating, which is better??
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Wed, 15 October 2003 02:45
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look who's come back home!
how was your trip paul?
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