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isaac
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Helensvale, Queensland
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March 2003
NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 00:45 Go to next message
Hey, I am just thinking about getting NOS. I don't mean to sound like one of those F&F wankers though.

Basically I used to think that it cost thousands of dollars for the system, and every time you used it you were up for like $30 of happy gas.

I've found out that I can get it installed for like $1000 and that if i get a 50 shot, that i won't need to do anything to my engine.

I have a '90 celica with 5SFE engine, and I take really good care of it, using really expensive oil change at 4000k's and always checking everything. Will NOS stuff up my car? Obviously it will be a little bit more wear, but am i looking at long term damage. I will only be using it occasionally. I realise it is illegal, but what happens if i am caught by cops with it? Do they just make my car un-roadworthy or does something else happen?

How much of a difference will it actually make.
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Apollo
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The other stuff that cops will do is fine you.

Plus the engine will be running pretty lean when you put in the nitrous as they are tuned on the edge of lean to begin with for fuel economy.

I think that $1000 would be much better spent getting a 3sge, or 3sgte engine dropped in. Even a 4agze would be money much better spent.

Ideally you should sell it and just buy something that already goes how you want it to go straight factory fitted like a GT4.

As for your "expensive oil changes", what are you putting in?
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isaac
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hehe, if the money for NOS was anywhere near the money needed for a 3S-GTE swap, then i would definately be doing the swap. I would love ot have a 3S-GTE Razz. A 3S-GE i don't see as much of an improvement. It's just a sportier/more performance orientated camshaft and stuff on a slightly-smaller displacement engine. I know it's a bit better, but for all the effort, i don't think it's worth the time/money. How much difference can i expect from 5sfe to 3sge?

So stock cars usually run a bit lean? Is there a cheap way to make it run a little richer, and if so, would it give me much more performance? Thanks for all your help
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draven
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stock cars actually typically run a little rich - especially at WOT (which is the only time you'd want to be using nitrous in a road car)
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isaac
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Schweet. that is what i thought. Does that mean if I got a NOS kit with 50 shot it should work alright? Do you think there would be any engine damage provided i still didn't take the car past 6000rpm (redline is 6250) and used only occasionally (EG: late night weekends only for a few little races?

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manipulate
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 04:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
one really easy way to reduce compression is just use 2 or 3 headgaskets

however someone on here i think mention that was dodgy for some reason
i cant remember why

Ta
Mani
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isaac
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What would happen if i was to use 2 or 3 head gaskets and reduce compression. Sorry i don't know much about these sorts of things.
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justcallmefrank
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apart from the problems resulting from having mucked around with the squish areas more likely to produce detonation) you'll have a car with lower compression that feels like a slug to drive when you aren't using NOS...read: 99% of the time.
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manipulate
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 06:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yes thats very true

so instead of comprising non-NOS time.....i spose u can set up some sort of system that retards ignition timing when your on NOS.....and returns it back to normal when not

??
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Cyber-punk
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sounds like alot of arsing about
i'd say do an engine swap and not bother with nitrous oxide

chances are you'll get happy on the gas and take it past your redline anyways....they rev a bit faster when on the N2O....*BANG* *CLUNK* *cries*


oh and if you're in an accident, insurance will rip you a new hole, then dephile it Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 06 October 2003 06:39]

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Apollo
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
isaac wrote on Mon, 06 October 2003 13:50

Hehe, if the money for NOS was anywhere near the money needed for a 3S-GTE swap, then i would definately be doing the swap. I would love ot have a 3S-GTE Razz. A 3S-GE i don't see as much of an improvement. It's just a sportier/more performance orientated camshaft and stuff on a slightly-smaller displacement engine. I know it's a bit better, but for all the effort, i don't think it's worth the time/money. How much difference can i expect from 5sfe to 3sge?

So stock cars usually run a bit lean? Is there a cheap way to make it run a little richer, and if so, would it give me much more performance? Thanks for all your help


Ah well, I thought they ran almost lean for emissions and economy. Ah well.

Anyways, the difference between the 5sfe and 3sge would probably be equal to a 50shot of nitrous, but it's "on" all the time. Very Happy

I'm still all for the "get another car". I personally learnt a long time ago to just forget trying to use "bolt on" enhancers and to just save for a car that does it all already and more. And until that happens, I'll just be content with my "bad choice".

Yes there is the electricsupercharger and there is the 5sfe turbo kit, but it's too much stuffing around and only one thing changes that then requires even more things to change like suspension and brakes. Too hard and expensive.
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thechuckster
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
isaac wrote on Mon, 06 October 2003 15:01

What would happen if i was to use 2 or 3 head gaskets and reduce compression. Sorry i don't know much about these sorts of things.


if the detonation doesn't kill it, the extra gasket material will probably pop out from between head+block like big, ugly zit after a few goes on the gas Shocked

if you're after power, i would suggest you do the obvious:
-improve induction and give it cooler air
-improve exhaust flow
-modifiable ECU + bigger inj
on their own, not much, but together should be noticable?

The stock ECU would run the engine lean when its safe to do so during cruise mode only - and any ECU will run rich during WOT or power events. They'll only run lean for emmissions and good fuel/mileage during predictable engine modes (e.g. warm idle, cruise, deccel etc).

Remember that the factory ECU/engine designers didn't want the car in for major repairs/consumables - it was to be as reliable as possible but still need you to replace lots of cheap shit that they can charge an arm+leg+testicle for.

charles.
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isaac
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've advanced my timing a few degrees, got a pod filter and 3" air induction pipe, a hot dog (straight through) muffler, new spark plugs, oil change every 4 thousand k's, new belts. How much are bigger injectors and how much difference will they make to performance? Will they make a noticable difference to fuel consumption?

Thanks
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draven
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Re: NOS Mon, 06 October 2003 23:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigger injedctors aren't really expensive. setting up the fuel controller for them would be tho
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SupraPete
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Re: NOS Tue, 07 October 2003 01:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Are you looking at a WET system or a DRY system? If you can get a wet system for $1000 installed then you don't need to stuff around with anything else, just make sure your adding the right amount of fuel (although if you've already advanced the timing this might be a problem).

Dry system should only be used if you're connecting the button to your computer to tell it to squirt in more fuel.
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Lambolica
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Re: NOS Tue, 07 October 2003 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I was in at a parts shop last week, purchasing filter foam for my car and their happened to be an OZNOS kit on the counter.
after speaking to the guy behind the counter about in he noted that the OZ-NOS kit is Legal (in NSW at least) If installed properly (ie legal IN the car NOT legal to use on the road)
if the bottle is disconnected and the solinoids removed from the engine bay. Is this accurate??
He also mentioned that fit outs to cars that have been done there have had MSD or similar ignition setup that retards the timing a degree for every thousand rpm over 5000rpm when on gas
and the Go button was setup under the pedal to ensure that it is activated only at WOT.
He also mentiond it's a good idea to fit forged pistons.

Hope this helps or at least is accurate (I'm open to opinions Embarassed )
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isaac
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Helensvale, Queensland
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March 2003
Re: NOS Tue, 07 October 2003 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sweet. Thanks for your help everybody. I've pretty much decided to save my money to one day get the car of my dreams, a JZA70 Aerotop or ST185 GT4. I am still going to do little things like exhaust, intake etc for little gains but nothing major now.
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draven
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Re: NOS Sat, 11 October 2003 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
good idea Smile
get a car that has balls all the time
and witha jza70, 200rwkw is a piece of piss to achieve
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Apollo
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
isaac wrote on Tue, 07 October 2003 12:48

Sweet. Thanks for your help everybody. I've pretty much decided to save my money to one day get the car of my dreams, a JZA70 Aerotop or ST185 GT4. I am still going to do little things like exhaust, intake etc for little gains but nothing major now.


That's good to see. Smile

JZA70... Interesting. I actually want a 1995+ (big brakes standard), JZA80 hardtop TT 6speed. Very Happy And a MK3 soarer V8 for a daily driver, (I know, but I want full luxury). The soarer is my next car to replace the apollo, then I'll work on the fun car. Very Happy
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Classique71
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
And a gt4 wiill outhandle just about every car on the road when a little loves applied to it.

WRX'es dont worry me in the bends anymore - Evo's still are a concern ..

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swankiedude
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Central Coast
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March 2003
   
Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lambolica wrote on Tue, 07 October 2003 11:35

I was in at a parts shop last week, purchasing filter foam for my car and their happened to be an OZNOS kit on the counter.
after speaking to the guy behind the counter about in he noted that the OZ-NOS kit is Legal (in NSW at least) If installed properly (ie legal IN the car NOT legal to use on the road)
if the bottle is disconnected and the solinoids removed from the engine bay. Is this accurate??


This is true. In NSW it is legal to have nos in your car and you can have to bottle mounted but you just cant have the system hooked up.
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isaac
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmm, my dream car would be a bright yellow JZA80 aero top twin turbo, with all the late model stuff installed (taillights, headlights etc) coz late model ones don't have aero top. A little, not too far out body kit and big wheels and really low. Coming back to reality, a jza70 will do Razz.

I am a little concerned with older turbo cars though, about the fact that the turbo in there has been starting and stopping heaps for the last 15 years or so, and just like so much wear. Plus celica's are usually driven by girls, but supra's are heaps likely to be thrashed by now. I guess i just have to get over it and buy one.
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draven
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I want 2 jza80s - a hard top and an aero top Smile
of course, I'd want my aero top TT 6-speed, which makes it an expensive endeavour - so I'll stick to the hard top till Im a millionaire
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Apollo
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
isaac wrote on Sun, 12 October 2003 20:17

Hmm, my dream car would be a bright yellow JZA80 aero top twin turbo, with all the late model stuff installed (taillights, headlights etc) coz late model ones don't have aero top. A little, not too far out body kit and big wheels and really low. Coming back to reality, a jza70 will do Razz.

I am a little concerned with older turbo cars though, about the fact that the turbo in there has been starting and stopping heaps for the last 15 years or so, and just like so much wear. Plus celica's are usually driven by girls, but supra's are heaps likely to be thrashed by now. I guess i just have to get over it and buy one.


It's always a concern for an older car that it's trashed, but you should be able to find one from someone who knows how to take care of a turbo properly. Always warms it up AND warms it down, changes oil regularly, etc. But a good rule of thumb is to have a bit of extra money "just in case" when you buy a car.

Quote:

I want 2 jza80s - a hard top and an aero top
of course, I'd want my aero top TT 6-speed, which makes it an expensive endeavour - so I'll stick to the hard top till Im a millionaire


Is the aero top jza80 that rare or something? I personally want a hardtop due to it being stiffer in the body.

Quote:

And a gt4 wiill outhandle just about every car on the road when a little loves applied to it.

WRX'es dont worry me in the bends anymore - Evo's still are a concern ..



Probably more than a little..... Wink

But what about the newest WRX? My mates MY03 STI sticks REALLY well to the road. I get him to go fast through roundabouts and shit just to feel the grip of the thing. It's pretty amazing. Where most cars would be sideways, his is still straight with no noise from the wheels or "floating" whatsoever. But yea, it did come at a pretty big cost that car... Smile
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draven
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well, I want the non-aero top one for the performance/weight/rigidity
and the aerotop one for summer cruises.
aerotop ones dont exist in 6 speed, so it would require a conversion, hence the cost
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Apollo
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
draven wrote on Sun, 12 October 2003 21:33

well, I want the non-aero top one for the performance/weight/rigidity
and the aerotop one for summer cruises.
aerotop ones dont exist in 6 speed, so it would require a conversion, hence the cost


Ah ok. But it should be minimal cost anyway as the 6 speed should effectivly just "bolt in". Unless there is some major PITA thing that I'm not aware of that requires doing. Smile
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draven
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Re: NOS Sun, 12 October 2003 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
are you aware how much one of those 6-speed boxes goes for? Smile
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Apollo
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Re: NOS Mon, 13 October 2003 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
draven wrote on Sun, 12 October 2003 21:53

are you aware how much one of those 6-speed boxes goes for? Smile



Yea. I was looking at it from an installtion point of view for after you source and aquire the box. Smile

But you could always leave it auto or 5 speed as it will be your bling bling ride, and the hardtop will be your more "serious drive" car. Smile
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rob_RA40
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Re: NOS Mon, 13 October 2003 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dont forget u need the 6spd flywheel, clutch and tailshaft mods

w58 is totally different.
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Chris Davey
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Re: NOS Mon, 13 October 2003 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I want a Hardtop TT for a high speed racer or maybe a TA22 track car?

and a

VIP Celsior for a daily driver!
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Apollo
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Re: NOS Mon, 13 October 2003 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rob_RA40 wrote on Mon, 13 October 2003 12:10

dont forget u need the 6spd flywheel, clutch and tailshaft mods

w58 is totally different.


Ah that's right. I already "combine" the clutch and flywheel when I think of a transmission, but I forgot the tailshaft as they are different length boxes arn't they?

Quote:

I want a Hardtop TT for a high speed racer or maybe a TA22 track car?

and a

VIP Celsior for a daily driver!


Ah the Celsior. That would be a real sweet daily driver. I still want a V8 soarer though as a daily. I want it because the V8 comes standard with so much luxury, not that much less power than the TT, and it's auto. For a daily driver I definatly want an auto, because when crammed up in traffic, I have better things to do than to keep shifting from N-1-2-N-1-N,etc, with all the clutch pressings that go with. Smile Then when I'd EVENTUALLY get what I really want, the TT supra, That's when weekends are fun in the manual. Smile
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Classique71
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Re: NOS Mon, 13 October 2003 08:52 Go to previous message
apollo - My gt4's suspension is no longer standard Smile

its had ALOT of love applied to it in recent weeks - and i have a bloody good set of sticky rubber on it to help keep it on the black stuff:)

Still dont like those evo's though - they are just scary for grip Smile



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