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Registered:
May 2002
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4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 07:17
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A question for those with electrical knowledge.
How do you wire the standard 4AGE thematic switch into a relay to switch the radiator fan on and off. I have wired up many relays before etc. no probs.
But the thing I am trying to work out is this is:
*the 4AGE thematic switch is earthed (grounded or what ever the term is??) when the fan should be off, and it becomes an open circuit (not earthed) when the fan should be switched on (I assume this is a fail safe mechanism or something so that if the switch fails the fan will just be left on?? Or something like that).
If it worked the other way around I would have it done, but it has confused me. (I am not flash with the electrics but can work out enough to get by).
Does it require a special relay?? Or can it be wired into a standard relay??
Anyones wisdom on this would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Shane.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 07:41
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actually i need to know the same thing.
i was under the impression that the green sender (the brown one is the cold start injector time switch) only saw between 0.1 - 0.5v - not anything like -12v.
so in other words the sensor is NC when under 80 degrees, and, goes to open when over 80 degrees?
let me think about this and if someone doesn't come up with an answer i'll try and nut something out.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 07:58
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on my 4AGE i decided to use a separate thermatic switch that operates just like you described (ie earthed (grounded or what ever the term is??) when the fan should be off, and it becomes an open circuit (not earthed) when the fan should be switched on)
i modified the water outlet from the head to accept the second switch and wired it up using normal relays.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 08:44
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Grega
I dont think that will work, I think you have 87 & 87a back to front. 
Is this "Green sender" a single wire switch that earths through its body to the block?
Shane, give me a call mate.
Cheers
Phil
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 09:25
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Phil, no I think they are right. Remember that the circuit is normally open, not normally closed...
The green sender is the one in the back of the 4AGE head - its earth is dragged from the ECU normally...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 10:07
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I dont think we are seeing this setup in the same way...
Please let me know how you go when you try it out tomorrow
cheers
Phil
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 10:38
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not exactly 4AGE, but on my mums 4AC, when the temp switch failed (it was not grounding to the coolant pipe anymore), the fan would not turn on at all!!, i jumpered around it to get her home and then cleaned threads so it'd work....
from this i figured that the switch is normally open and grounds when the fan turns on...
so does the 4AGE one work in the opposite manner?? i think my 4KE one works same as the 4AC one....
hmmmmmmmm........
which one is the toyota standard or are ther many of both??
Cya, Stewart
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 10:43
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not sure phil, what i'm eluding to is if the ground from the sender is there until 80 degrees, ie the circuit is NO the relay should be creating a field inside it causing whatever is plugged into 30 being driven to 87a right? when the ground from the green bastard drops when it reads over 80 degrees, then, 30 should switch to 87, if 87 is connected to the ground on the fan, then, the fan should fire up. 87a becomes disconnected - you wouldn't wire anything up to it anyway. am pretty sure my logic here is right, if i've got 87 and 87a around the wrong way, then, all you'd have to do is swap the two wires
i'll have a mess around with it tommorrow dudes. have relays power supplies multimeter ect and that green bastard somewhere....well there is one sitting in the back of my head on my car, but, not removing that one - have another spare at the workshop.
[Updated on: Mon, 06 October 2003 10:47]
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Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 10:53
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Hey,
What is the normal operating temperature of a 4AGE?
Like whats the highest or hotest temp?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 11:47
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Grega: Now I see your logic, provided that you hook pin 30 up to ground (I couldnt understand the reference to -12V in the first post , I thought you wanted to switch the 12V positive wire to the fan, not the ground)
You do have 87 & 87a back to front though for a standard single pole, double throw 5 pin relay. Swap them over & it should be fine, otherwise the fan will operate below 80 degrees.
It would be important to hook the power for the fan to ignition 12 volts only, not constant 12V, otherwise the bastard will run whenever the ignition is off, regardless of temperature!
good luck with it.
Phil
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 13:06
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my setup runs completely independant to the ECU. it is a stand alone system that actually uses a pair of 5 pin relays. one is switched on by ignition power, which then draws power directly from the battery. power then goes to the second relay which is switched when earth is disconnected (ie when the switch heats up and goes open citcuit, or when the wire is unplugged off the switch itself), and the fan runs. so for any reason if i need to be sure that the fan will stay on with ignition, i can disconnect the wire from the switch and the fan will run.
as for the switch itself, i'm not sure what is is from, dad, being a mechanic, got hold of one from something (for some reason KA laser comes to mind). i can find out if anyone is interested. looks just like the temp sender on the engine, single wire...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 4AGE thematic switch setup question??
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Mon, 06 October 2003 22:24
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4ag use a normally closed relay for the thermo fan
the thermo sensor is usually earthed then when it gets hot it breaks the earth to the engoine this then turns the fan on
thats y u need a fan that is normally closed
then u need ignition power as the feed for the thermo rather than battery otherwise the fan will go all the time with the key off if the sensor stuffs up
toyota have done it this way so if the plug comes of the sensor ther fan will come on rather than stay off and overheat engine
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