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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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 TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:27
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Hey all, i have been researching madly about putting a 4agze into my ta22 and have a few questions that are still unanswered.
- Who has done this conversion to completion?
- Is it possible to get this engineered on stock brakes and stock suspension? With say DBA disks and upgraded pads?
- How many thousands of dollars for a workshop to perform the conversion?
Thanks for any help you can offer, if anyone has any suggestions then fire them my way!!!
Cheers guys.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:35
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1. dunno
2. ring an engineer
3. get a quote from a workshop
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:40
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gee thanks 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:41
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you wont get anywhere if we spoon feed you 
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:45
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I thought i'd save myself some time though 
Do i just look up automotive engineers or something similar in the yellow pages?
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Wed, 08 October 2003 23:48
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your road and traffic authority will have a list of certified engineers u can contact
if u call them (RTA) and ask for the engineers in your area they will give u all their details.
talk to all of the engineers in your area (and maybe outside) explain what your looking to do, some will make u upgrade the brakes some will not. find the engineer that will suit you.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 01:41
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i'm just in the finishing stages of my 4AGE 100kw motor to my TA22 - its a HEAP of work - i'd expect several thousands of dollars for a mechanical shop to complete something like this.
1. not far from (but with 100kw motor)
2. with a GZE - not a chance!
3. SEVERAL!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 02:07
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HERE
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 05:58
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I've done this conjversion, so here goes:-
1. Get your engine
2. Get a Sprinter T50. Oz spec ones have clutch fork on passenger side. Get a Jap one if you can. Get the bearing that goes in the gearbox. Cut the floor so the shifter will go through.
3. I used Sprinter engine mounts, and the standard engine mounts
4. The standard mounts will have to be cut of the cross member, and cut till they line up to the Sprinter engine mounts and the cross member. Engine was in and out 6 or seven times for this 
5. I have a AW11 4AGZE, and they have the heater outlet pointing straight out of the back of the head. It's about 15cm long. We had it cut, with the outlet now facing straight up. This enabled us to sit the engine further back, but still with the ability to replace the hose at the back without removing the engine.
6. The thermostat sits near the supercharger. I used the FWD thermostat.
7. Radiator outlets are on the opposite side. Either have them switched over, or run some hoses across the front of the engine to the standard radiator outlets. I would get the hoses switched over, and get it rebuilt if you want a better set-up.
8. Get the tailshaft shortened
9. Get a nice big exhaust fitted. I collect my car from the exhaust shop on Saturday, with a nice 2.5" mandrel bent system with a muffler and resonator. Get your intercooler piping done now as well (If your going to run a front mount). I'm using a GT4 air-to-air intercooler front mounted.
10. Do your fule system. I'm just running a VL external fuel pump. If I suffer fuel starvation, then I'll get some baffles put in the fuel tank.
11. Wire the computer. I'm using the factory ECU. It hasn't been wired yrt though (Tassie Toymods guys, who's good???)
12. Hook up a boost gauge if you want. I have used the clock as my gauge "holder". A little bit of file work and it fits nicely.
13. Cry with frustration as the expenses keep mounting, and the money runs out.
14. Replace all of the hoses and the timing belt.
15. Put a Big pulley on  . Replace the key whilst you're at it.
I wouldn't want to pay anyone to do all of that, because I imagine that it would be quite expensive.
You'll also need a mechanic brother, and a welder uncle who will let you do the work at their place.
If you can't/won't do the work yourself, then I suggest you buy one that has already been converted.
Put some good suspension in. Brakes will be up to your local transport authority, as well as the engineering requirement.
Have a look at the conversion in the tech section on this site as Oz-craig has highlighted, as well as conversions into Sprinters.
For $$$ for a wokshop, look at Sprinter conversions and add the costs of tailshaft and engine mount mods.I know this post is long, but the engine doesn't just magically fit in.
Cheers,
Justin
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 09:21
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Justin what fuel mods have you done to your TA22. Do you need to increase fuel line size or just use what is already in there??
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 13:03
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mmmmm yes i'm interested to hear different efi setups in ta22's as well, ie everything that got changed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 15:37
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i removed my fuel lines, folded them up and put them in a skip. they got replaced with annealed copper pipe for LPG only.
i share justins point number 13...
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 00:44
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Unfortunately i don't have a mechanic brother or a welder uncle which is the reason i would need a workshop to do it. What sort of a budget am i looking at having?
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 01:03
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Hi all,
The fuel system has not been completed, but the outlet pipe will be 8mm metal pipe from the fuel tank to the pump. Then 8mm the whole way to the engine.
We think that the easiest way would be to have the hoses from the fuel tank to be copies of the originals, and then work from there. There is no way in hell that I'm going to use EFI hose for the whole system. It costs major $$$$$$$.
I'll use the original return line as well. If this is to small, then I'll use the original fuel line as the return line.
Everyone/anyone think this should work?
Side note, I pick my baby up from the exhaust shop tomorrow  . Then I'm going to have a go at wiring it up...
Boris, I can't help with the cost of a workshop, but I imagine it would be cheaper and easier to buy a Celica with a 4AGZE in it already. Have you thought of asking some Toymods guys in your area? I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper, and you would get people who have done the conversion or similar. It's amazing what people will do for beer and a BBQ....
Cheers,
Justin
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 02:03
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How much of a difference is there to put a 4agze compared to the tech article that is written for the 4age?
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 06:09
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Hi,
This is pretty much all the things I could think of that needed to be done before and during the conversion.
Things like brakes, suspension and the like are dependent on your local RTA. You could have your suspension done whilst your exhaust is being done. Most exhaust shops also do suspension. You might as well have a go at the suspension whilst your car is apart in your driveway though. Just make sure you don't try and put the engine in, and do the suspension at the same time. One thing at a time.... You just don't want to get to overwhelmed.
1. Get your engine
Make sure it runs, has a warranty, etc.
2. Get a Sprinter T50. Oz spec ones have clutch fork on passenger side. Get a Jap one if you can. Get the bearing that goes in the gearbox. Cut the floor so the shifter will go
through.
Collect all of this, and get a 4AGE FWD flywheel, and the appropriate clutch for it. This will be either 200 or 212 mm depending on the flywheel you get. The bigger one is better. The clutch will depend on what you want. I choose an Exedy Extreme clutch with an upgraded pressure plate and higher temperature friction material. You might want a brass button version, it's up to you. Do this before you start the conversion. Speak to other Toymodders about the clutch, and there experiences with these.
3. I used Sprinter engine mounts, and the standard cross-member mounts
Get the Sprinter engine mounts before the conversion. I wouldn't pay more than $60 for them. One of the more "reputable" import yards here in Hobart wanted $200 for them. They are $212 new from Toyota.
4. The standard mounts will have to be cut of the cross member, and cut till they line up to the Sprinter engine mounts and the cross member. Engine was in and out 6 or seven times for this
This will obviously be performed when your car is off the road.
You will find that the Spinter engine mounts don't fit properly because of the supercharger. Do a search on this website, because I have explained how to do it in one of the tech section.
5. I have a AW11 4AGZE, and they have the heater outlet pointing straight out of the back of the head. It's about 15cm long. We had it cut, with the outlet now facing straight up. This enabled us to sit the engine further back, but still with the ability to replace the hose at the back without removing the engine.
Get this along with radiator and the inter-cooler pipe mods done all at once at a radiator shop. You will have to borrow a car because your radiator will be out of the car....
6. The thermostat sits near the supercharger. I used the FWD thermostat.
Take some measurements of the hose lengths you need, and buy it before the conversion. It would help to get some 90 and 180 degree metal bend pipes to aid in hooking up all the water inlets/outlets. You could have the whole system almost pre-made before you put it into your car. Take it all off before you put the engine in though!
7. Radiator outlets are on the opposite side. Either have them switched over, or run some hoses across the front of the engine to the standard radiator outlets. I would get the hoses switched over, and get it rebuilt if you want a better set-up.
See point 5
8. Get the tailshaft shortened/lengthened
I'm measuring mine at the exhaust shop. I pick my car up tomorrow and they said it would be okay for my car to be put up onto the hoist to measure the tailshaft. This will be done after you have the engine in its final resting place.
9. Get a nice big exhaust fitted. I collect my car from the exhaust shop on Saturday, with a nice 2.5" mandrel bent system with a muffler and resonator. Get your intercooler piping done now as well (If your going to run a front mount). I'm using a GT4 air-to-air intercooler front mounted.
Get this done after you have put the engine in.
10. Do your fuel system. I'm just running a VL external fuel pump. If I suffer fuel starvation, then I'll get some baffles put in the fuel tank.
Buy the pump and what ever lines etc you want before the conversion. Speak to the guys who are going to help you out. They should sent you in the right direction.
11. Wire the computer. I'm using the factory ECU. It hasn't been wired yet though (Tassie Toymods guys, who's good???)
This will be done after the engine is installed. If your going aftermarket, you should make sure that it has base maps for YOUR engine, and a loom. I'm having a go at mine, but will no doubt have to get an auto sparky to finish it. My flat mate is an electrical engineer, and I know he wants to have a go at this...
12. Hook up a boost gauge if you want. I have used the clock as my gauge "holder". A little bit of file work and it fits nicely.
Save your money, and fit one after you have the car going. If you have the cash, than wire it up after the engine is put in.
13. Cry with frustration as the expenses keep mounting, and the money runs out.
Trust me, this will happen. Alternatively you could swear, punch a boxing bag, or get drunk (cheap wine, you are broke after all).
14. Replace all of the hoses and the timing belt.
Buy these before the conversion. Just buy the genuine Toyota parts. Get a filter and plugs, plug leads if you need them. And things like degreaser, engine oil, gearbox oil, strong hand cleaning "soap", chux, rags, Karcher to clean the engine bay, some rope (used it to line the g'box up with the new engine mounts), file, angle grinder, welding gear, tools, etc.
15. Put a Big pulley on . Replace the key whilst you're at it.
The key is a Toyota part that costs a couple of $$$.
The pulley that I have is an Nevo 175mm pulley. You will also need a crank "puller". It helps you take the old crank pulley off.
Cheers,
Justin
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 12:32
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thank you very much for that reply, how much has it cost for all the necessary parts excluding any labour? and how long was your car off the road?
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Location:
Hornsby, Sydney
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Sat, 11 October 2003 05:34
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I know this has been siad in every thread and will be said in every new thread. work out how much it will cost you and times it by 4.
doing all the work myself (or as much as i can ie not customing my own radiator) and trying to source reasonable piced parts over a long period of time I'm looking at spending about 3 to 4 grand but will have a few spare to keep pumping into it.
this is extremely cheap, but it will be no show car at all. prettiny much everything except modding my tail shaff and radiator and fitting my exhaust i will do myself.
i dont know what a workshop would charge but it would be alot of labour.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Sat, 11 October 2003 08:48
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yeah what roadrunner said for sure - times 4, unless you are on REALLY good terms with someone who owns a workshop, be prepared for a MASSIVE labour bill.
like i put in my other thread boris, i'm reckoning 12 months, and, at the moment at least 3-4k and its NOT GOING YET and i'm still short a couple of bills, so, will be looking down the barrel of maybe $6k.
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 07:31
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Hi,
BORIS these are my costs SO FAR. More to come 
Engine- $1900 and $250 freight
gearbox- $250
clutch- $310
flywheel- $50
flywheel machined- $20
spigot bearing, timing belt and crank key- $40
RWD exhaust manifold- $150 + $20 freight
fuel pump (VL or Bosch)- $220 (I got mine for $100 brand new 
fuel lines- $50 so far
2.5" exhaust with resonator and muffler- $300
radiator hoses, clamps, bends etc- $100
radiator mods and rebuild (includes heater oultlet mod)$250 quote
trailer hire to move my car- $35 (moved the car 3 times so far, $105)
fuel for using my mates car to tow- $50 odd
Brother and Uncle- $300 odd (My bro needed money to buy a car)
Intercooler mods and install- $100
Tailshaft- This hasn't been done yey ($250 odd???)
transport inspection- $70
Filter- yet to buy ($100 odd)
Boost gauge- $50
Costs so far are $4700, and I don't have it wired up yet. I'll do as much as I can, then get an sparky to do the rest. So, say $300(?) odd. I also have to have the lines made to switch the clutch cylinder to the other side ($50?).
That makes it $5050. I also have to replace the windscreen and get it registered which is $700 odd .
Forgot these-
Need afuel filter- $30 odd?
New oil $45
Spark plugs-$13
Plug leads- $34
Cleaning stuff- $40 odd
You'll also have to get new shocks and springs. This will be at least $600. Mine cost $640.
New front brakes. Well I think the Peugeot/Hilux set-up costs $800 odd. Someone will have to confirm that though. My set-up is different, and has cost me $520.
The boost gauge is not essential, but if you've got it, flaunt it  .
You may have to replace some bushes and the like. Say $150 odd.
Emotional heartbreak ant anger and frustration. Say 2 years from your life .
Crap that the transport guys will want fixed, $100 odd.
I don't need to engineer the car, so I'll save $400 odd .
It adds up to $7122
These cheap "engine/gearbox/loom" are quite deceiving aren't they....
When my baby starts for the first time, I will forgive her for all the grief... It is a labour of love after all.
Have I forgotten anything??? Anyone think of more costs?
End rant,
Justin
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Location:
Hornsby, Sydney
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 08:57
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Lets add on another $600 at least for engineering (i think you missed that) and then add on what the engineer wants you to fix.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 10:00
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justin i don't think i'd be far behind you looking at that list. i'll put one together. be prepared for a big shock.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 21:45
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The Car - $700. The idea - 100kw 4AGE.
Engine, gearbox, clutch and flywheel - $1100
Spigot bearing, and release bearing $20
flywheel bolts $26
Clutch master and slave $80
Custom clutch pipe $120
RWD exhaust $150 (possibly more)
Aussie B2, S350 $800
Tank $380
Dizzy $200
Pipes, Lockoff, Installation $500
2" exhaust with resonator and muffler- $250
radiator hoses, clamps, bends etc- $100
radiator mods and rebuild (includes heater oultlet mod)$300
Tailshaft- $300
Remote Oil Filter, Adaptor and Cooler - $300
Speedflow fittings and Pushlock hose - $200
Autometer gauges $550
Plugs $20
Oil $150
Leads $30
Paint $180
Wheels and Tyres - $150
Odessey Battery - $240
Battery Cables to suit $60
New Springs and Shocks $500
General shit, machining, bracketry, paint ect - $300
All this is $7706 including cost of car!
Stage 1 of things to do
Autometer speedo and tacho $900
Seats $300
Brakes $1000 (but envisage much less than this)
Diff $1000 (shortened R31 Skyline/VL Commy LSD with 4.11's)
Wheels $1500
Lightened Flywheel - $600
Clutch to suit - $300
End of Stage 1 = $13206
Stage 2 of things to do
ECU for ignition $1500
RB20DET BB turbo $450
Oil lines, water lines $300
Exhaust to suit $800
End of Stage 2 = $16356
Gotta add in there a paint job (which will only cost $180 and my time (coz I'm doing it)
And one more thing - time and knowledge gained = Priceless.
For me with this ordeal its been a real autoshop 101!
Don't forget Just Cars rego which will be $$$$ and ongoing registration costs, fuel is cheap until the government add there bit onto LPG then it will be the same as normal optimax.
Now how cheap is an engine conversion? Even if you do it to my pre stage 1 - its still expensive! You look in the paper and see 4AGE 100kw for $650 - and then the REAL expenses start.
Would I do it again. You bet!
It would be 100% easier for me the second time around because of what I've learned, I owe it all to a very good bunch of friends to making this happen and educating me - again something you can't put a $ value on!
Oh and yeah. Throw on engineering costs - if memory serves $450 for inspection and then god knows how much!
[Updated on: Mon, 13 October 2003 21:45]
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 08:37
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i didn't think that there was all that much welding to be done? regardless of the amount of welding, my grand dad has a welder so it might be ok.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 08:38
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if you have to make custom engine mounts yourself out of angle iron or metal plate, trust me theres a lot of grinding, cutting and welding to do!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 08:50
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what v8 ma61 said.
learn to weld and you will save money
you'll need custom mounts if you use the std ta22 crossmember - not an overly difficult job to get right. remember the T50 bolts to the middle set of holes in the floor (you'll know what i mean ask justin or get under your car) and then all you do is fabricate the mounts from there.
i can't weld for shit so i had my done by my mate john
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 11:53
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get templates somehow out of cardboard and i can give you a hand/ show you how to do stuff when my supra is finished. You can see the type of work i had to do to my xmember in the tech and conversions section under "long awaited pics of my conversion"
Grega the name is Blake also.
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Location:
vic Castlemaine
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 13:19
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1. Im dreaming of a 20v
2. age you mad enuff 2 want 2 drive it with them and i doubt it will pass
3.Winning tatslotto wont pay for it Im not being a smart arse either
I also here you need a supra trans 2 handle them i dont no what bellhousing u use tho
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Location:
vic Castlemaine
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: TA22 Engine Conversion Questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 13:23
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Note: welding aint easy if you havent had a lot of practise trust me ive being doing a corse for a year and i still cant weld 4 consistantly good enuff welds 2 satisfy an engineer
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