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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 07:36
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Hey guys, I've just bought an 18RG motor for my RA28 celica. I've got a few questions about it. Firstly, its got lumpy cams, shaved head, ported, polished, and 4-2-1 extractors.
Any idea what sort of power (ballpark figure) this would be putting out?
Secondly, it's going to need a new exhaust, and I want it quiet to hide the lumpiness from the coppers, but still relatively free flowing, there's a 2.5" outlet off of the extractors, what sort of system would you recommend?
Can I run the engine on unleaded? Will it need premium?
Finally, I am in Adelaide, will the engine need to go through Regency/RTA to be approved, or doesn't it matter because the engine is a factory option and there's been no change in capacity?
Cheers for your help,
Tim
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 10:25
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hiding the "lumpiness" isn't really possible unless u have an idle of like 3000rpm.
i would also stick with at least 2", but would prefer the 2.5" exhaust.
Run the car on premium fuel only dude, nothing less than 96ron!
And i have no idea about rego in SA....
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 10:35
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Re the rego in SA. Best thing to do is ring Transport SA at Regency park and ask for the Vehicle Standards section and explain the egine that is in the car along with the fact that it is the same block etc.
I'm at the moment waiting for a response from them re the 7M-GTE in my 84 Mk2 Supra 
Cheers
Michael B
PS When I had my RA23, all I did was change of engine no. form 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 11:35
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easiest way to hide the lumpiness, send me your lumpy cams and i'll send u my std ones
i just got a 2.25 and its plenty loud
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 11:42
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Ive got an 18RG and i was running leaded when i first got it cause thats what the guy that had it before me was running. I started using leaded last sunday (havent had it long) and it runs much better. Then i read on a site that u are supposed to run premium. Will there be much difference between the premium and the regular? I've never used premium in any car before so i have no idea. Also, what do you mean by lumpy cams?
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 11:45
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oh and how big are the solex carbies that come with the engine?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 11:50
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old super {leaded} was about 96 ron, lrp is not like 89, ULP is 91, PULP is 96 and Optimax and Ultimate are 98
more than likely 40mm
lumpy means bigger lobes and wider duration {higher revs and more power}= better
since the 18RG was designed to be a revvy engine, they had hard valve seats to cope with 7-8000rpm, and these seats can cope with the lack of lube in unleaded
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 11:55
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I've revved it to around 7k a few times and 8k twice by accident. I think it likes it lol.
So does timmy mean the original lobes or have his been replaced?
Cheers
Benen
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 09 October 2003 13:18
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Hey guys, the engine has competition cams, but I'm not sure of the numbers on them. The solex carbies are just stockies, but they've got a custom box around them with a Ram air pod on it. What I meant by hiding the lumpiness was sticking 2, mayber 3 mufflers on it, plus resonator, and maybe cat. I'll make it so quiet you can hardly hear it! But I'd really like it to be quiet at idle to hide the lumpiness, but then get louder as it moves higher up the rev range/when I floor it, anyone know if this is possible.
Anyone know any good tuners in Adelaide?
Cheers,
Tim
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 08:46
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This conversion will have to go through regency.
Do not tell them about the "not retaining the original cam" thing as that will immediately make the conversion not road legal in your car.
Make sure that you connect up all the emissions stuff you can find.
Get it emission tested (basic approx. $20-30) and tuned to pass at <2.5% CO and less than 250ppm hydrocarbons.
Note: if you have comp cams, you will have bugger all chance of getting this passed.
Best bet is to source some regular cams (newer the better) and use them for the emissions test. Then once you've got it passed you can change them back discretely.
Make sure you're car is roadworthy, as they will give you a full roadworthyness test when they inspect it.
Don't change the carbies, these need to look original foir the inspection, but once it's passed, you'll find that these will restrict your engine with the lumpy cams.
These engines are loud when you rev them, that is just how things go, and you've got 96db to play with at idle.
Benen, your engine might not be any better with premium as from memory, you've got the low compression version so it shouldn't make too much difference, other than all the mechanics I've spoken to reckon that Lead replacement fuel is shit and recks your engine really, really fast.
If you need any more info about getting your conversion passed regency, my brother and I did it recently (18rg-RA28) and got through first go.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Fri, 10 October 2003 12:14
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Hey Steve, I was under the impression that if there was no change in engine capacity, and the engine was fitted to that model (ie the GT 2000)it was not necessary for the car to pass a test at regency. But the car will obviously not pass the emissions or legality tests, so what should I do? I don't really want to have to source new cams just to swap them back, and there's no emissions stuff on the engine. Do you think it would be possible to just fill out a change in engine number form from the Department of Motor Transport to get around it?
Any help will be appreciated,
Cheers
Tim
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Location:
Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sat, 11 October 2003 02:11
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Regency has a specific automotive instruction regarding the replacement of engines into early model celica's. it is free so call transport SA at regency and they will post it to you. You can just tell them the engine number and you won't need an inspection if you want to do it illegaly, but your insurance and registration will be void if you ever crash it. (they can only tell you are replacing an 18R with an 18R from engine no.)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sat, 11 October 2003 14:31
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If you want to get it legit. then you'll have to tell them that it is an 18rg, and then you'll have to get a roadworthy test (has bugger all to do with the engine conversion, but they thought they might as well do it while were inspecting the conversion.
Our emissions crap was not working when we took it through, but it looked completeish.
Just an quick note that it may infact be possible to get your engine to pass emmissions.
Ours passed while it was almost completely undrivable (running extremely rich when anywhere but idle, and it also didn't like idling on four cylinders all the time.
Sprints carby and fuel injection centre did our tuning to pass emissions reg. and it seemed to work.
They are most happy and it costs less if you balance the carbies and do a rough tune yourself to start with.
a few things are possible, it just depends on how legal you want to be and, as Andrew said, how much you value your insurance.
One option is to attach an air pump to your engine and pump fresh air into your exhaust, this might help you pass emissions test, after all, Toyota did it from the factory for this very reason.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 08:49
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Thanks for the relpies guys. Unfortunately, I don't think the engine will ever pass emissions, as I don't have stock cams for it, and all the restrictive emissions gear has been taken off. So even if it could get close at idle, the inspectors would still hear the lumpiness in the cams and stuff and not pass it.
What sort of exhaust would you guys recommend to keep it quiet? I don't want to attract attention to myself with a big loud exhaust, the outlet from the extractors is 2.5", so I was thinking 2.5" pip to a resonator, then 2.25" to a muffler, then 2" to a second muffler, then out of a 2" tip? How does that sound? I figured that as the exhaust gas moves out, it will get cooler and contract, so the smaller pipes would be fine, and would also cause less noise. Or should I just go with 2.5" pipe all the way through with 2 mufflers and a resonator?
Cheers for your help,
Tim
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 09:45
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18rg's are very loud engines, its like trying to quieten down a gemini, AINT GONNA HAPPEN.
i just got a 2.25 and i get looks left, right and center, if u pay thru the teeth for the best muffler out there it may be quiet until u hit like 4-5000rpm.
do not get a catalitic conv. as its not necessary, use that cash {$150-250} to get a decent muff
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 13:36
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shit, even a 2" exhaust is loud as all buggery!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 13:38
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yeah no shit
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 13:41
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should i be using premium in mine? i started to but now im not sure. it does run a lot better. Its the carby engine, i think its a yamaha head, the red one. i really have to go have a look some time, i havent had it for long
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 14:19
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Hey,
just wondering TimmyTurbo and Benen,
what gen are the 18RGs you guys have? ie. what is the last five numbers on the front left of the head? should be 11111-882xx..
This may help estimate what comp. ratio each of the motors could have, if they still retain the original internals that is.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Sun, 12 October 2003 23:43
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| benen wrote on Sun, 12 October 2003 23:41 |
should i be using premium in mine? i started to but now im not sure. it does run a lot better. Its the carby engine, i think its a yamaha head, the red one. i really have to go have a look some time, i havent had it for long
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You say it runs a lot better on premium, so surely you've answered your own question?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 00:15
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So what kind of mufflers are you guys running? I would like it if its quiet until about 4000-5000RPM, just to hide the lumpiness, I would like it if it really roared after that. Any idea how much (ballpark) an extractor-back exhaust system would cost with 2 mufflers and a resanator?
BlackRA28 - my head has been shaved, so it wouldn't be running the original compression anyways.
Cheers guys,
Tim
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 02:27
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If you're running the 40mm solexes your engine will be reasonably quiet until 3000rpm, then the induction noise kicks in, it may not be quite so loud with yours.You have a single air box from memory?. The induction noise will be loudest at 3800 and from then on the engine will just scream its self to redline.
We have extractors (approx 1.5" I think) with a 2 inch using a turbo flow-through muffler and a 2.5" tip. It is fairly mild at idle but the flow through muffler makes any missfires pretty obvious. If you have a bad idle, I would suggest going for a smaller exhaust than many guys are running, higher backpressure will override some of the effect of the lumpy cams at idle and it may idle smoother. This will also make it quieter.
Of course, if you go for a small exhaust on a worked engine you'll be losing top end power I reckon, but the bottom end torque shoudlbe much better.
When getting your exhaust, make sure that you have the exhaust linked up with your extractors by way of a flange, this way, once it gets passed (assuming that it will) you have an easier job changing it over to a more effective one. It also make it easier to do work on the engine if you can easilr remove your extractors.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 03:36
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My head is 11111-88253
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 04:59
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Cheers for the info Steve, so maybe I should go for a 2.5" pipe into a resonator, then a 2" pipe from there out to a muffler, then another 2" pipe to another muffler. I guess I'll have to go ask a few exhaust shops. Any recommendations on good exhaust shops in Adelaide?
Cheers,
Tim
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 09:17
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as i said i have a 2.25 with 1 muff and tuned lenght extractors, at idle u can actually feel the exhaust "thump", its almost WRX like until 3000, then flattens out and then at 4000 it gets real loud and THEN my stock solexs drown out the noise
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 09:21
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yeah, mines the same, at high revs i cant hear shit over the carbys
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Mon, 13 October 2003 14:00
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Well, I think I'll definitely be going with 2 mufflers then from what you guys have been saying. Another thing, what exactly do I need for the swap? The engine comes with dizzy, alternator, starter motor, fan, flywheel etc. I know I need to make my own throttle cable, but do I need any special hoses or anything, or can I just rip stuff off the old 18R-C to begin with?
Cheers for all the help guys,
Tim
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 02:24
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I was pleased with the people who did the extractors job on my brother's car, Streamline Exhaust in Newton. They did what we asked them to and did a speedy job of it too!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Tue, 14 October 2003 02:31
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You'll need to redo the heater hoses on the passenger side to suit the new engine as there are outlots in different places. You'll need a different radiator hose I think aswell. As the carbies are on the other side, you'll need to lengthen the hose to your carbies from the carbon canister. The dizzy is in a different place, so you might have to lengthen the wire that goes to that. It is all pretty simple stuff and shouldn't take long at all if you get straight onto it.
You'll also need to get some tubing to go from the head breather to the air cleaner box, THIS MUST BE DONE FOR REGENCY. They do not like those little filter like things.
Big tip: if the block braether is not hooked up and you have a spare 18rc lying around, remove the place that the rg block breather comes from and swap it with the 18rc blanking plate. ONLY do this if you have the cast balance tube on your intake manifold, otherwise hook it up the way it is supposed to be done.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Wed, 15 October 2003 12:46
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can anyone tell me anything about this head?
11111-88253
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Assorted 18RG questions
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Thu, 16 October 2003 06:52
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Yeah, I can, we've got one of these in the store room as a spare.
Dual valve springs as stock.
45mm intake vlaves
38.5mm exhaust valves
easily ported (better shape than the EFI head from the factory from what I could see). Easier to do the porting.
bridge type casting on the deck.
Don't do up the head bolts over 63.7 ft.lb, the previous owner had done that to ours and guess what! He put a ten inch long crack in it. It just broke it's back!
Anything more you want to know?
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