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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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New Grp A owner
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Tue, 14 October 2003 04:09
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Hey guys.
Just need a little advice from those guys who know a bit about the st185 grp A rallye. What sort of problems should I look out for? Tips on driving - this being my first turbo, though I did drive it back from sydney. Still haven't got used to the clutch or the noises. That boiling sound from the intercooler was a bit worrying to hear the first time I switched off.
I'm getting it serviced tomorrow at my local toyota dealer (logbooks you know) but I got the impression that they may not have worked on this type of car before. Plus i had some bad dealings with them in the past. Anyone know an experienced dealer in south bris?
What sort of oil is best? I've got some magnatec which i think should be good enough but what is best? What sort of things should I be looking at regularly besides that dipstick I burned my finger on. Damn it gets hot under there!
Any input will be most welcome. She is stock standard except for the 17" speedy mags and the brand new Viper 791XV alarm 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Tue, 14 October 2003 04:20
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ive got a series 4 rx7 and id never let a mazda workshop lay a spanner to it. i dont trust manufacurers workshops with turbos or sports cars in general, they are fine for family pack cars tho.
try and find a specialist in your area, they might charge a little more but atleast they know what their doing.
as a general rule for turbos try and change the oil every 5000km
i duno about the boiling sound, mine dosent do that
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Tue, 14 October 2003 05:56
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| Hawk wrote on Tue, 14 October 2003 14:09 |
I'm getting it serviced tomorrow at my local toyota dealer (logbooks you know) but I got the impression that they may not have worked on this type of car before.
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Theres the first thing you "Should not" do...
Reason:
Toyota: Your CV Joints are stuffed... $800 ea to fix
Problem: CV Boots busted... $15ea worth of rubber
Toyota: Your power steering rack is stuffed... $2500 for a reco
Problem: Boots are busted... Again $15ea worth of rubber
Toyota: Your batteries stuffed... $100 for a battery.
Problem: Toyota dealer swapped it for a reco (That same day)... MUTHER F*CKERS
All true problems had by myself for going to one dealer thinking that I'd be better off... How wrong I was
You really need to get to know your car... listen to her.. hear her cry for good quality Penrite oil... Mobil 8000 go go juice and top up your W/A intercooler every once in a while (swap the coolant... only takes 2 litres worth)
Watch out for smokey turbo's... it is standard for a light coloured GT-Four to have a black patch near the exhaust ( :
The clutch is fairly touchy thats normal... the car will not get a good start if your draggin' unless you rip it to 3krpm
No your steering wheel isn't weird... its just got cool retraction action for all the big fella's over there in Japan ( :
You should very much enjoy having one of these rare beasts so long as you have the $$ to keep it maintained.
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Location:
Launceston, Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Tue, 14 October 2003 08:35
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Slipping clutch - if you play with the boost - upgrade to at least a heavy duty job - the stock clutch doesnt like big boost
Cv joints have been mentioned - you dont want to have to replace a driveshaft! 700 dollars minumum there and they dont even give you a new one !!
The diff is basically unbreakable for street fun - though they may whine a little
Body panels - any obvious repairs will show up with badly set joins and gaps.
W to A intercooler CAN loose the pump - though you can either make this run constantly with a cheap moodification OR now you can replace them aftemarket with a davies craig item instead of genuine ( 1k for the pump!!)- this is rare though
on the other side of the fence - my cars done 207 thousand kms - hasnt had a rebuild , hasnt had turbo rebuild - and it doesnt puff any smoke at all.
group A's - especially 1 owner jobs are usually very VERY well kept .
I have a friend with a st185 group A - a red one - his name is kevin - hes a menmber of the brisbane celica club .. his is totally original - and Immaculate - an awesome car  I want it - but he wouldnt sell
So i got the grey st185r thing in the pic over there <--
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Tue, 14 October 2003 08:43
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Oh i forgot - driving tip
watch the rear end - it has a tendancy to twitch with the stock swaybars - and the front end WILL oversteer with overzealous cornering
If you have a spare 2k ( like we all have this ! ) invest in the whiteline "works" kit
ive just installed this on my gt4 - and it handles like you wouldnt believe !! Awesome is the only word currently i can describe it with
kit contains Koni adjustables - rear camber bolts , rear 18mm adjustable swaybar ( stock is 12 mm - way undersize for the car ) lowered springs, front swaybar bushes and mounts , and rear trailing arm bushes ( these stop the rear diff " walk " that the gt4 has ie the diff can move in its cradle 20mm either way wothout any effort - which basically makes rear end handling shit )
Other upgrade paths to look at:
Invest in a decent boost contrller - you dont need an electronic one - just one thats adjustable.( lets you utilise up to 18 psi instead of around 11 max on stock gear )
And also a less restrictive downpipe + exhaust setup..
Aussie exhaust makes a full 3 inch from turbo back system to suit your car ( off the shelf - no need to fabricate!~ )- that will really liven it up
looking at these couple of tweaks will see your car sitting at around 130-140kw at all 4 wheels, providing your mechanicals are all in VG order - and make the Gt4 what it should be - ie a WRX eater
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Location:
Sutherland, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Tue, 14 October 2003 11:35
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:P First of all, congratulations!!!
I've skimmed over what the guys have already said so I'll keep it short.
CLUTCH!
Direct Clutches in Brisbane. Don't waste your time and money elsewhere. Get it put in by whoever you like, but buy your clutch from them. Apart from knowing them- albeit indirectly-
I have tripped through their workshop. The guys are awesome at what they do...almost passionate!! They do the best twin plate for a GT4 in Aus.
I got a heavy sprung 5 puck Kevlar unit and I can drop the clutch at 7,000 and the only thing that slips are the tyres around the rims :) I used to run high boost and my old clutch (heavy duty from BD4's losers) would slip when flat changing at high revs from 3rd to 4th.
Unlike other puck jobbies I've had, this one doesn't shudder at all when taking off normally.
Direct Clutches:07 3862 2680
(conveniently placed near AUSSIE EXHAUSTS I believe, Albion)
Whiteline kit:
A lot cheaper getting the parts yourself. I think I should have gone for King springs and Bilsteins but the works kit is ok for the street I guess.
THE WHITELINE SWAY BAR KIT IS A MUST!!! having said that I might just point out that a standard Group A has a stiffer suspension setup than standard. It has different shock rates and heavier springs to match. It also has a thicker swaybars and from memory I can't tell you which but wen I was putting the "works" kit on either front or back was minimal although the Whiteline jobby was adjustable. Make sure you check those nuts and bolts as they don't give you much thread to play with and I lost a nut off the rear....VERY WOBBLY REAR END!
Konis are quite good if you screw them to full sport mode and dont hit any potholes...they're not too tough :(
I put the front camber kit on the front and decided that the rear camber kit was way way way not needed! I find I have to be doing 120+ before the back will creep at all. I went for a crazy late nite/early morning drift session around the Shire last wet patch and was very disappointed indeed. Sticks like shit to a blanket now. This car was definitely built for dirt.
Running -2° camber and that seems a happy medium.
Intercooler boiling????? what the??
Dude, flush your IC radiator and do a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol (the red stuff) you can get it genuine from Toyota and is a bit pricey but you'd be suprised how far a 2L bottle will go. It's VERY important that you fill it properly and bleed the system (like brakes) for air otherwise you WILL get pump problems. does it cavatate like a prop on a boat??? dunno, ask someone smarter.
if your IC still bubbles like a dirty dog then maybe your pump is cactus. (you will hear some mild bubbling in the main radiator after a solid run which I'd say most are already :) Of course get a turbo timer and the your baby cool down, but not cook in 1 spot.
A lot of crew set their IC pump to spin non-stop. I have spoken to some crew who seemed quite technical on this matter and I tend to agree. They say that if it's constantly running then it heats up the water too much. You'd be suprised how little of it there is running round your IC lines. I would rather the pump came on,lets say when you were sitting at the lights, and gave the IC a fresh blast of cool water to counteract the lack of air flow wouldn't you?
Perhaps if somebody came up with something like the fuel pump mod in reverse so the IC could trickle around then pump normal when need.
Fuel pump mod:
A: I've done this and I feel the difference.
B: it's easy.
C: take out your Fuel pump relay from the fuse box (above air-con unit) and plug in a little insulated 12 gauge? wire (thick stuff) which you have conveniently made using simple male tongue plugs.
D: hey presto, your fuel pump will now run at full voltage constantly instead of switching from 9ish to 12ish when you put your foot down. This eliminates that split second glitch you feel and gives you better acceleration.
AUSSIE EXHAUSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES DO IT!!!!!
My car was the lucky guinea pig for Russell up there at Aussie. (Say hi to him from Steve anyone) As there were not many cheap of the shelf dump pipes available, I then realised that the stock turbo elbow REALLY sux!! (look at it!!) I worked with Russell to create a kick butt Dump pipe. I was worried at first as I had nobody to tell me what difference it would make and I had lots of people giving their opinions, most of which said I'd lose bottom end power. I found this to be rubbish and the extra performance gained from the Dump pipe alone was sheer joy. Turbo spooled up heaps quicker and I found it actually had better low down grunt...maybe coz the turbo spooled up quicker??? who cares! it just went heaps harder and that was the aim.
Russell has worked with a few other guys, including a great guy called Stasio, to create a quality full system. Off the shelf ST185/205 guys like Russell should be congratulated!!
I use MOBIL 1 every 5000k's and I'm strict about it. I also do a filter change but thats just me. Keep the oil up coz I believe I've screwed one of my engines through low oil level with sustained high G cornering. The 3SGTE could do with a dry sump or better baffling! The engine itself has quite a remarkable oil system that most mechanics are not aware of. Worth a damn good read through your engine manual!!
OK, upping the boost. (my opinion)
If you have a high flowed CT26 then forget about pumping up the boost too high. 18PSI with a high flowed turbo will chew your donk much sooner than later. It tends to run way too lean, giving you a damn fast ride:) On a stock blower you could run whatever your wallet will allow up to 18psi (Grp A fuel cut) but I wouldn't go past 13PSI for safety and longevity. You can run that without batting an eye. With an aftermarket computer (such as an EMS Stinger) then you can knock yourself out. Your only limited by your head and pistons so go 18psi no probs.
If you must get an EBC then get a good one. My "old" one I found spiked badly and allowed my engine to burn out the top then a piston coz I was foolish.
Let me know if anybody wants a GT4 Shell for a paddock basher or parts. I want to get rid of mine now. Mos, yours for free dude. Just pickup :) of course I'd have to make sure I kept the odd hub or diff for that price. Heck, you could take it straight down to the scrap metal joint and make a buck if you wanted!
I'm getting rid of my ST185 gearbox too. $300 and it's only done 29000klms. (I have 2 Grp A ones now :)
well thats all I can think of off the top of my head.
Have fun!!!
If you want the best GT4 mechanic in Brisbane, and good price, go to Warren Molloy Motorsport. Ask for Warren :)) He is also the man for conversions and one of the very rare breed who actually know how to wire up ECU's properly and at the right price, who can then offer you support when tuning unlike other tools who just plug it up (badly) then dont know enough about the system to help you with it.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Wed, 15 October 2003 06:14
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That's a pretty comprehensive list there guys, especially good comments from Steve there. I'll second Steve's recommendation for Direct Clutch. I was the guinea pig for their 1st GT4 twinplate clutch..had to send up my flywheel and wait a coupla weeks. After 2 years og abuse and a recent big hp turbo upgrade it's just starting to slip, i was hoping it would last longer but it's done far better than anything else so far.
One thing i don't agree on with Steve is the pump mod. Definitely set it to run full time. The heating of the IC fluid by the pump is totally insignificant compared to the heat being transferred from the intake and just general engine bay heat. There are guys in Oz and overseas who have good before and after data on how much ccoler you IC will run if you have the pump running constantly. Also get as much heat shielding on the IC as you can. Make up an alloy shield to sit under the IC and also tape up the bottom and sides with that thermo tec adhesive aluminised tape. After an extended drive you'll find that keeping the IC cooler will really help prevent heat soak and the associated power drop off.
Enjoy the car but don't break anything, GT4's are hell expensive to maintain.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Wed, 15 October 2003 07:46
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Steve - I talked to russel the other day about my system - he and i have another deal running atm - to source a 165 mule
so far things are lokoing promising for me and the mule donor
he is a good person - very nice to talk to and glean info on ..
Pity warrens in brisbane - or else id get him to look at myECu swap - and doirect clutches might get a call from me after the 185 rebuild next year - IF i need another clutch by then
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Fri, 17 October 2003 02:32
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Sounds obvious and has normally been done, but if the insulation under the bonnet hasn't been removed, remove it...Does wonders for the cooling. Got 2 options there - total removal (I did this) or just cut around the scoop...
Either way the heat haze coming out of the bonnet give an indication of how much heat it was trapping under there...and amuses most of your passengers.
Turbo timer and Alarm system are 2 things i would do pretty quickly... see you have done the alarm already...
I went to canberra toyota, to see if they were going to service mine the said "there was never a limited edition gt4 brought to Australia." It took me about 2 seconds to walk out, and am now a happy customer of Neal Bates Auto's...haven't regretted it for a second!
For a driving tip - Generally to a 4wd turbo - when you first loose a bit of traction, resist the temptation to countersteer...back of a little, keep the wheels pointed to where you wanna go, wait till it starts to find the line, and plant it. If you countersteer you will suddenly find tracktion while you are heading the wrong direction, and like my mate with his wrx crash it before the first repayment.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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New Grp A owner
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Fri, 17 October 2003 23:27
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I don't plan on doing any mods at this stage, I like to keep my cars mechanically stock (well so far anyway - that may change in the future). The alarm has a turbo timer built in and seems to work well. The alarm has the coolest remote ever made IMHO.
I haven't heard the I/C bubbling since i had it serviced so.... I'll keep an ear open for that one. Got to take her back on monday to get the safety certificate finished off. Cracked front parking light and rear spoiler light. Just about fell over when they told me how much for a new spoiler light  $709 fitted!!!! Over $600 for the part. I went to the wreckers and got one for $50. That's today's little project. Think I have to go in through the boot and undo a nut to let the light unclip and pull straight out. Things are never that easy though. I've also got a small oil leak from possibly the camshaft. The mechanic (spoke to him personally) said it's a full day's job to get to it. I'll probably get him to have a good look at everything else while he is in there. Ka-ching$$$$
Here is my old site (not updated in over a year - and the email doesn't work anymore) with pics of my door panels in my ST184. http://home.iprimus.com.au/bripat/My%20Celica.htm If I get door panels made up again I want the vinyl to match better if possible. These ones are sweet but not quite up to my group A. I've just moved to optus so i've got 5mb of web space so when i get the time  I will do up a new site with my ST185. What generation is my car? I know they started making the group A in sept 91 and upgraded the standard features in March? 92 to include a sunroof. Anybody?
I'm considering changing my wheels for 15", to cut down on the cost of tyres and to drop the height down without lowering the car. She sits pretty high compared to my ST184. I may just stick them on my 184 when i sell it because the mags on it are pretty shot. Previous owner must have liked parking on the edge a lot.
Keep the suggestions coming guys, I am taking notes.
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Location:
Launceston, Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Sat, 18 October 2003 02:45
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your celica would be a 5th generation model and the second generation that was available in GT4.
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Location:
Launceston, Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Sat, 18 October 2003 02:46
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also, how much would you want for your old celica minus the sound system?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Thanks
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Sat, 18 October 2003 05:33
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if you want a set of stock ( aka genuine st185 15 inch gt4 alloys - same as the group A's + centres + nuts ) Mine are up for sale ..
ive just taken them off the car, for the new alloys - and they are in VGC ..
they need a clean atm - brake dusts still on them but otherwise they are in excellent order - PM me if your interested !
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Sat, 18 October 2003 05:39
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Hawk - Im interested in your door panels - I possibly need a set of these also for my Gt4 - loking to put a set of 6.5 inch splits in the front - but need the pods like yours made up?
has the guy who made the pods still got the moulds - or an idea on the cost involved in making pods like those ?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Sat, 18 October 2003 22:38
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Well I don't know how much I want (or can get) for my ST184 yet, got to spend a little bit on it to get it so i'm happy to sell to someone. She's done 165000k, serviced by toyota, in generally good condition (previous owner treated her rough), extras pack with fog lights and cd player.
I can't take the door pods off because I don't have the original map pockets anymore, plus there is a big hole in the door cards themselves for the speakers obviously. I've been told that to get similar pods done now is about $500. The guy that made them is/was? Graham at Awesome Audio in Toowoomba. He didn't have a mould he just made them by hand, painstakingly I might add. Wish i had a talent like that. I've got to sell the sub box too cos it won't go in my gt4  I may take the stereo out depending on the buyer and price. It's also got a decent battery with gold plated terminals and good wire and fuse.
What do you guys reckon for a fair price with and without stereo? I know this is all off topic..
On topic - what specific oils are best? Fully synthetic is the best but the most expensive. I want my car to last but i don't drive it really hard or do drags or anything. $60+ for Mobil 1 seems a lot though if it is worth it I would spend that much. With a stock engine at stock boost is Magnatec or equivalent Ok?
Is it me or do passenger door switches play up a lot in 5th gen celicas? Both of my cars have the same problem. Sometimes they work sometimes they don't. Not good when you rely on it for the alarm. Better get a microwave sensor i suppose.
I'll be joining the brisbane celica club and i can't wait for some cruising to come up locally, christmas is a while away yet. I'd like to meet some of you guys and your rides. And show off mine 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Sat, 18 October 2003 23:23
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re sub box - gotta LOVE a full sized spare tyre !
grr!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2004
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 Re: New Grp A owner
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Tue, 05 October 2004 05:25
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Hey i just bought my group A and in the process of re-building it. Nice to hear another Group A in brisbane. This is awesome thread. Lots of great Info Thanks Fellas.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: New Grp A owner
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Mon, 18 October 2004 16:22
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sik, keep us updated on how your rebuild is going..
i'm just in the process of doing mine and i look forward to finally deciding on my setup before i end up hanging myself 
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