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Location:
qld
Registered:
May 2003
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swaybars
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Tue, 14 October 2003 06:02
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hey i have got a qaute for front and rear swaybars for my ta22 whitline in brand. $85 for the front 24 mm and $85 for the back 18mm.
also there are adjustable swaybars for the front and back at $150 each what is the purpose of this and should i get them.
Jason
does anyone know the standard size for the front of a ta22 and if a 24 mm bar is much of an upgrade. same with the back.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 00:35
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Sorry to hijack the thread but does anyone know what would be a suitable thickness of bar for the rear of an RA28?
We are currently using twin stock front saybars and this woks great, and is very easy to fit, just get some longer bolts here and there, make up some new brackets and whip up some urethane bushings and it's all but done.
The result, 1.5" front sway bar equivalent for about $10
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 00:52
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So do you need to run a strut brace now to stop the chassis from flexing?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 03:34
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Adding a rear anit-roll bar(sway bar) increases stiffness at the back of the car. This increase in stiffness increases the weight transfer at the back of the car, meaning that it will transfer more weight onto the outside tyra and take load off the inside tyre.
Adding a rear anti-roll bar is fine as long as it is done in conjunction with a proportionatly stiffer front bar.
Adjustable bars are an easy way to "tune" your suspension. By changine the bars effective stiffness, you can adjust the weight transfer in the car from corner to corner. Meaning that if you have an oversteering problem, there is a probability that you could be getting too much weight transfer at the back. To fix this, increase the front bar stiffness. This will make the front end of the car work harder to resist body roll, taking the load transfer off the rear end. Ultimatly keeping both rear wheels on the ground doing what they are supposed to be doing.
Unless you really want to get the very best handling from your car, I wouldn't bother with adjustable bars. If they are badly set up, they will make your car handle worse than standard. But having said that, just putting on a big rear one and a standard front one will do just the same.
The diameter doesn't mean much on it's own as the length of the arms plays a part in the stiffness. Whitline are not stupid, if they recommend these bars as a pair, then they must work relatively well together.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 03:43
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Gold 28
I had a 27mm on the front and im not sure of the rear but it made handling really bad to the point of driving like an old granny in the rain in the dry it was ok but not exceptional. I have since taken the rear off and thrown it away and the difference is amazing which just backs up what you said i guess.
I have adjustable lower control arms now to try and compensate for a bent chassis issue which im sure was caused by the rear sway bay which i will hopefully get to install this weekend so we will see how well it handles then. Thumbs crossed...
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 03:56
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Jason, I bet you have lowered springs in the back of your car.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 05:18
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Lowering the rear of the car changes the thrust line of the suspension geometry. This will reduce the traction available and also lead to an oversteer situation. (I also have this problem). The only way to fix this is to either return it to standard ride height or change the trailing arm hinge points. You can improve traction a little by installing an LSD but that only covers up the problem.
Your chassis rails probably aren't bent and if they were it is very unlikely that an anti-roll bar would have caused it. Because the upper and lower trailing arms are a different length, the diff will pitch with suspension movement. Lowering the car will pitch the nose of the diff down (lower the uni joint) This is why the make adjustable trailing arms.
Lowering a car doesn't necessarily make it handle better.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 05:24
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Because the car was stiff in the rear and it oversteered and as a result i couldnt correct it fast enough it went back and sideways into a gutter and threw the car about a foot in the air as a result the chassis rails are a little to the left now thats why im hoping these lower control arms will pull the wheels back to the right so i can correct it.
I will have to look into modifying some trailing arm for the diff to correct some of those issues that you mentioned
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 06:01
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I can see why you would want to throw it away then. Sorry to hear that.
There was a post a few months back talking about "traction brackets" these should fix the thrust line problem associated with a lowered rear end. I am currently doing a diff conversion for my 28 so I am going to fabricate new brackets to fix it properly. If you don't plan on changing diffs, then the "traction brackets" should work well for you.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 06:27
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ahhh ok
What diff are you putting in?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 09:04
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i had 24mm swaybar up front and an 18mm rear bar on my ta22 - in conjunction with gas shockers , and standard height springs - and it handled really really well
As per other posts ive mentioned to you - its very very good upgrade for a sportier ta22 feel .
Add a good set of tyres ( had goodyear eagle f1's on mine ) and youll be a happy chappy 
words of experience here - I really miss the way my ta22 handled - but its no comparison to the Gt4 - totally different cars
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 21:45
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I'm putting in an F series from an early Corona. The just right diff, not too heavy not too light.
Check out the following post for the traction brackets
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&g oto=142623&rid=1110&S=70b9d799542dcf35fb8a 1133271ce7d7
Classique71 has the right idea for a good handling car, as long as you keep it standard ride height, you shouldn't get any nasty geometry changes. Don't get me wrong, there is big advantages to lowering a car but you have to be prepared to fix the problems associated with it.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 15 October 2003 23:39
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Does anyone know where to get a strut brace in Adelaide fo ran RA28 celica, I am having trouble finding one
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 00:08
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I've got a 24mm Swaybar for the front, at the moment its still unfitted, but the car is lowered 1.5" on gas shocks all the way around, so gold28 your saying that its probably not a good idea to install it because of the lower geometry of the car? I mean it handles quite well now in the dry, I'm quite a cautious driver in the wet as it is anyway so that doesn't concern me as much, but this is my first car and I'm not sure whether what I think is "good" handling in my car is actually "good" handling.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 00:33
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Steve M: Joel (AKA: bigworm) got one from whiteline. Aparently he got a good deal because it was the first they had made. Give them a call, even if they don't stock them, they have made them before and should have tooling/dimensions to do it again.
Alchemist. You should add an anti-roll bar to improve a handling problem. If your car has a problem with understeering, increase the rear bar. If it has a problem with oversteer, increase the front bar. It is never a good idea to make suspension changes without a good reason. If it handles well, why change it.
Lowering the rear of the car (this type anyway) will actually reduce the lateral weight transfer at the rear. Which should increase lateral grip. Unfortunatly it reduces the forward grip more than it improves the lateral grip. What Jason was experiencing is a lack of forward pushing traction which meant the engine overpowered the tyres and once that happened you loose all sideways grip. What he didn't mention was he probably had the right foot planted when it happened.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 00:40
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Thanks Think I'll leave it as is at the moment, it came with the car when I bought it so I thought, maybe I should put it in sometime, anyway once I get some other stuff fixed and take abit more note of the handling I'll look at getting something fitted. I honestly dont drive it hard enough to even worry the handling  issues, damn speed limits.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 01:18
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What have speed limits got to do with handling? I still manage to push my car's handling limits while remaining within the speed limit... you just gotta find the right roads to do it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 01:19
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True
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 01:45
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And that is a very nice car you have there alchemist. It would be a shame to damage it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 02:04
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Thanks , absolutely no intentions of speeding and/or driving stupidly in this car. Its puurfect and I intend on keeping it that way, I do hate parking it in carparks though  Only thing I do it give it some off the lights occasionally.....and that not all that often either.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 02:40
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if you do lower it down - i believe you need to look for an adjustable panhard rod - or esle the diff becomes off centre ?
is this right guys ?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 02:52
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Quite correct. On the front it's also a good idea to fit roll centre adjusters.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 03:08
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If anyone has a RA23/28 with standard suspension I would be keen to measure it all up and put together an article explaining everything I know with a few pretty piccies. I am not an expert by any means but I do have a basic understanding of how things work. I won't be able to come up with any recipe for the ultimate handling package but I can show you what you are stuffing up by changing things.
Or I can take you for a drive in my car that was (all lowered properly, no cut springs or nufin) and you will soon see how little traction my celica has and the somewhat wierd sensation you get mid turn.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 16 October 2003 04:14
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I'd be very keen to see article put together not many stock RAs around anymore.
Hey Alchemist I think I seen you driving on the F3 the other night heading North?
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 05:49
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should I go with 22mm front or 24mm front.
Becuase this is the specs I got from both whiteline and K-Mac.
Whiteline:
22mm front $172
18mm rear $172 (full kit)
(nb: they said they can make a 24mm front, however it would be a non-waranted and non-return item. Because they don't know what problems might occur from making it so stiff. And that it would cost 10% more than stock so $189.20)
K-Mac:
24mm front $235
18mm rear $195 (shit, I can't quite recall if it was 18/16mm)
so should I choose 22/24mm on the front? I know alot of people have the 24mm, but why is it that whiteline wont make it standard? Thanks in advance for advice, I want to order them soon. Maybe get them here on friday, fit them for sundays Arthurs seat cruze.
Cheers, jacob
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 06:03
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My understanding is that Whiteline actually do to some extent test their set up to ensure that it works well as a "package". But then again, I would hope that a company such as K-mac would also test their product.
If they are both using 18mm rear bars and have the same leverage (will change the effective stiffness) then logic would suggest that the whiteline front bar would be a little more "stable" ie more understeer / less oversteer than the k-mac set.
Having said that if the rear bars are of a different length or configuration, then this may not be correct.
I guess I havn't really helped. with your decision. My advice is to go with both bars from the same company and look into maybe an adjustable rear bar if you want to be able to fine tune it.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 06:16
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| gold28 wrote on Thu, 16 October 2003 13:08 |
If anyone has a RA23/28 with standard suspension I would be keen to measure it all up and put together an article explaining everything I know with a few pretty piccies. I am not an expert by any means but I do have a basic understanding of how things work. I won't be able to come up with any recipe for the ultimate handling package but I can show you what you are stuffing up by changing things.
Or I can take you for a drive in my car that was (all lowered properly, no cut springs or nufin) and you will soon see how little traction my celica has and the somewhat wierd sensation you get mid turn.
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You can use my 28 (all I need to do is put the rear springs back in) I'm not sure if the front sway bar is standard however and I don't think they came with rear sway bars as standard did they?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 20:38
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I might just take you up on that offer.
Maybe sometime over the Christmas break I could spend a morning measuring it all up. It should be interesting to find out what Toyota intended for roll centre positions and thrist lines.
The springs are at standard ride height aren't they?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 20:38
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is that meant to be thust lines? don't mean to be a prick.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 21:57
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| gold28 wrote on Thu, 11 December 2003 07:38 |
I might just take you up on that offer.
Maybe sometime over the Christmas break I could spend a morning measuring it all up. It should be interesting to find out what Toyota intended for roll centre positions and thrist lines.
The springs are at standard ride height aren't they?
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The rears are lowered but I've still got the stock springs to put in.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 22:15
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i have a st162 and just last week put in standard heght king springs, KYB gas shocks, new urethane bushes on almost everything in the front and rear end, castor kit plus a rear swaybar (18mm up from the stock 13mm) all of which were Whiteline products. The improvement is just unbelieve in fact it is so much better its like a new car. From my understanding all the celica front bars were hollow and that the whiteline packaged ones are smaller in diametre but solid, so 22mm solid or a 24mm hollow. So my 2c T APLUS, go with whiteline as they've been doin this for ages and are great at it-the other thing, probs dont get the adjustable arms coz they set it up great with the normal ones. Another thing, if ur puttin in a rear swaybar make sure ur links are in good condition coz if they're not they're gonna be the first thing to go with all the extra load on them, see if Whiteline has some for your car, coz they didnt for mine
Oh yeah, im planning on putting the stronger front bar in soon as well, plus some bigger n better rubbers.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Wed, 10 December 2003 23:06
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it was supposed to be thrust line........can't type 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 11 December 2003 02:01
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well i don't know how mine handles (yet). its kinda, um, well in pieces at present after its 4AGE conversion.
i bought a complete set of eurethane(sp) bushes for the underside (and i mean for EVERYTHING) in my ta22 along with king spring low springs, monroe GT gas shocks and whiteline sway bars (front and back) with an adjustable panhard rod. i haven't gone the RCA's yet (i don't understand enough about what affect they will have on my car - yet - still learning)
whiteline do have an ra23 strut brace which i'd also like but unfortunately i don't believe the ra23 one will fit the ta22.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Thu, 11 December 2003 07:01
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yeah, I wanted the strut brace but no TA22 model. Damn I just want to ring up and order it. But which ones? Also will I need to get a panhard rod If i'm not lowering it? Maybe i should get the whole setup brought at once and save a little on freight from Whiteline direct. mmm, now whats the dream setup on the 22?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: swaybars
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Mon, 15 December 2003 04:34
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I think that you might find the adjustables aren't that good for fine tuning. I spoke to whileline about them and basically they have three stiffness settings. The middle setting is the same as their non-adjustable kits, the other two settings are just a bit softer and a bit stiffer. so really the only adjusting you can do but still keep the wicked balance whileline have set, is if you use the same stiffness setting on both bars at the same time. I have the non-adjustables on my TA23 and they give you a tonne more grip but i wouldn't mind a softer or closer to standard spring setup and use the stiff setting on adjustable bars but i am yet to try that. whiteline and pedders can also make strut braces for ta23's so you should be able to get one for a ta22. Good luck
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