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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Mon, 20 October 2003 23:56
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Im after the best ring bedding technique possible, thus providing the best ring seal
ive read every old wives tale there is regarding the best lubricant to use when installing the rings themselves, what to lubricate the bores with during piston instalation, and what kind of oil to run during that first 20mins of engine start up... .
...everything from wd40 on the rings, auto transmission fluid on the bores, and castor oil for the first 20mins of running...
i understand that synthetic oils are a big no-no due to their efectiveness at lubricating the bores and actually preventing ring bedding.
does anyone have any thoughts on what theyve found to be the most effective way to bed rings and build horsepower?
cheers
ed
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Tue, 21 October 2003 03:07
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Valvoline make a straight 30 running in engine oil...I'd suggest using that for maybe 1000kms then changing the oil filter and the oil for a thicker oil (preferably the best you can afford, I've generally always used Castrol oils, because they are reasonably affordable)
But as far as bedding in goes, it's a black art...I've heard all sorts of stories, from going hard every now and then, to driving like a pussy-cat for a billion kms....
My personal experience with a rally car and my road car (which I f**ked up in the rebuild stage anyway) is that you should try and use as little throttle as possible for a 1000kms or so, maybe for the first 200kms just stay beneath 3000rpm, then for the next 200 after that try to let the engine go up to 3500rpm, and for the next 200kms after that, use 4000rpm etc etc. But don't use too much throttle, just let the revs slowly build. The other thing is not to sit at the same revs for too long, try to vary your speed (but again, don't overstress the engine by flooring it to get back up to a speed).
Just one perspective, but I'd suggest keeping an open mind and listening to other people's ideas as well...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Tue, 21 October 2003 04:36
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That souned about the same as the proccesses I was told to go through for running in my brother's rebuilt engine. That process has been around for decades and doesn't seem to have changed much. I have also heard a theory that the first time it is driven it should be given a kick on the throttle but not let the revs get up (ie. hard throttle in high gear)I think this was to make sure that all the bearings were seated correctly.
If anyone disagrees with the above comment, please let me know why, I would like to know if I have been given bad advice so that I can not send it out in the future.
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Tue, 21 October 2003 05:27
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Someone put up a link not so long ago to a running in instruction page that said to give it a hammering straight away. It went on about how bores are honed much finer these days & the rings don't have long to bed in properly & that you should warm the engine up & then give it a 50% throttle run to about 60% revs 2 times, then 75% throttle to %80 revs a couple times, then full throttle to redline a couple times. It also made the point that without moderate cylinder pressure there is no force on the rings pushing them against the bores, which I can understand.
The site may have been just a big joke on gullible fools, but it was pretty convincing. 
It's worth the read at least. Ayone remember it?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Tue, 21 October 2003 05:51
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Basically the dude makes a valid point. The rings need load to seal. Pretty much any wear is going to happen straight away. He suggests warming up (this is the thing a lot of people neglect) properly and laying into it. High revs and no load is a big no no. He has a pretty comprehensive guide though:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Tue, 21 October 2003 05:56
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With aircraft piston engines the manufactures actuall state that you start them up basic quick tune until warm and then you go full throttle for about 2-3 mins flat strap. Use straight mineral oil ie no detergent for a couple of hundres km's and then just drive.
Its a compromise because the rings need to be bedded in fast to stop glazing etc and the bearings need to be run in slow for obvious reasons. Just drive it but dont give it a hard time.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Tue, 21 October 2003 07:31
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yeah, ive had extensive chats with moto-man about a whole bunch of his ideas, and the 'running in' process is still debatable...
thanks to everyones respoinses above, but id kinda like to redirect the question a bit...
im more concerned about the role of initial assembly and lubrication of the rings and the resultant bed-in they get in the first few seconds of operation.
for eg, some recommend installing the rings with wd40 only to prevent corrosion, then installing the piston in the bore with only a light coating of cutting oil. this apparently produces a significantly better bedding (and thus ring seal) than conventional oil...
i know this isnt a run of the mill technique, but just curious to see what some engine developers (for race teams etc) have uncovered through years of engine building... seeking that last hp!
cheers
ed
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Piston Ring Lubrication, Bed-In and HP
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Wed, 22 October 2003 01:22
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I'm planning to ask him next time I see him, but I'm sure you'd know, what does Graham Wilkins recommend?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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