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Registered:
June 2002
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Tough Six. Anyone?
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Sun, 21 July 2002 11:27
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After the dyno day it has become clear to me that not many people are building tough sixes. I think i was 10kw behind the toughest one, an engine twice the capacity. Just woundering as i'm about to build a 2jz and would like to see what others are capable of. Though most people stick to straight conversions and boost adjustments. I'm sure a 1jz in the right hands Would be more capable of 500hp.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Sun, 21 July 2002 11:31
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check out the latest issue of high performance imports. there is a 1jz in there running about 500-600hp on stock internals. pretty damn ipressive for a 6 if u ask me.
goto love the strength of toyota engines.
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Location:
Sydney Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Sun, 21 July 2002 17:10
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don't worry too much ben  .. i know of a few in the final days of being complete. Joey's cressida with big single turbo and C4 gearbox will pull some good figures as soon as the gearbox is rebuilt, and unfortunatly the 2J supra from newcasle of Joe's ran into some hassles the week before dyno day.
Only takes time... btw.. very nice figures at dyno day. I'm sad i missed it. You have to take me for a ride as last time i went in it i think it had about 60wk's less!!  nice.
Luke
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Mon, 22 July 2002 07:41
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Ben..
The 1G will be finished by November, along with the T28's hanging off it, and the MoTec to run it.....oh, and its still only a 2 litre....
Making the power with fistfulls of boost is easy, making it with ,minimal boost is alot harder, hence the reason im only goin to run 14-16psi, with a goal of 300+RWHP (225+RWKW).....
And yes, ive had a heap of people ask me why i wont run more boost for more power..there are other avenues to explore other than more psi......
Geez, this turned into a rant......what you puting the 2JZ in
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Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 11:08
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laterallus:
is a 2jz in a ra23 road legal ??!?!?!
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 11:24
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To my knowlege no it is not legal. But most things that are that much fun aren't... I'm reasonably confident i'll get it passed, we'll see when the time comes. I don't even know if anyone else has tried.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 11:26
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hmm... good luck with that
let us know when its done, cause id love to see it...however i might drool over it a bit 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 12:48
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Tough sixes eh - i know itas not toyota - but since were on the opic - my next road car will be a 6
3 choices are ma70supra ( 2jZEEE!!! ), GTS-T nissan syline - or a supercharged EL XR6 ( i get ford stuff Cheep )
6's are good - and if built right cam match any 8 on the road ..
Can anyone here say Charger ??? i think the e48 charger ( correct me if im wrong ) had more KW power than todays modern SS commodores and XR8's ..
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 12:53
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I'm interested in hearing about this super charger on the ford!
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 12:57
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Shane - Denmac ford have an on the shelf setup to bolt onto the 4.0 - you have to lewr the compression a little on the motor - and use the auto with upgraded internals but trust me - its good for over 200KW .. One of my mates had one in his ED falcon - it was a SLEEPER - and my GOD did it haul arse ... but heavy on the fuel cause it had to run premuim - but man - it was awesome - Kit cost him 6000 to get it installed and up and running ..
Bob romano has an EF falcon in his shop at the motor thats puulling 300Hp at the rears with a similar kit - and it looks stock too
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 13:15
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OH MY GOD * drooool *
now thats a fast taxi
actually keep your eye out for the new Xr6's comng out - apparently the turbo ones are having to be detuned boost wise cause they are embarrising the XR8's for power ..
The forced induction on those MAY bolt up to a AU - though i see a need for the twin cam head thats goign on them as well to get full potential
Stuart
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 23 July 2002 21:51
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Looking at those pictures makes me think that I like the AU shape better! But then again my falcon has the full body kit to make it look better!
Maybe I could fit a supercharger of a Ze or something similar! What boost levels do these put out standard?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 01:19
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Hi fella's, i heard that the turbo DOHC six was going to put out over 200kw although this was a few months ago (a friend of a friend is one of the designers!!) It is still based on the old block however the head is different so the turbo gear wont bolt onto the older head. I think the turbo may put to much strain on this engine and its age will finally show!! There was an article in Zoom a while back (has Tony Rigoli's WRX on cover) about a twin turbo setup on a stock 4L with around 150 000km (from memory.) It used the Skyline turbo's (T03 style) and was making heaps of power and torque. This conversion could be done far cheaper than a supercharger, and even cheaper if you could do some of the work yourself. At the end of the day superchargers can only make so much power but a turbo can go alot further. Thats my 2 cents worth anyway.
Jamie.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 01:58
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Instock form maybe - the turbos will strain it, but ad the usual stregthening mods and it handles it without much complaints ..
Shane linked em to a certain XE with an on 4.1 250 in it and its pushing over 350KW on the dyno - though hes using a massive turbo - and has done the strengthening like forgies and so on ..
That block may be old - but its hella strong ..
Stuart
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 03:09
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Jamie, would you know exactly what issue of Zoom that article was in?
That sounds very tastie A twin turbo falcon! Mmmmmm Now would'nt that be a sleeper!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 06:22
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It seems everyone here has neglected NA 6's. Not as glamorous as a boosted unit, but much sweeter at 7500 rpm.
What about a 2JZGE with 11:1 comp, ported head, 300+ degree cams, 6 48 mm throttle bodies? Pics soon.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 06:24
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Ben...
Yeah the fuel system and i/c will definately be able to handle extra boost. I got 3/8 lines, the rising rate reg (thanks to you  ) and the 550hp pump (thanks again!). I also got a 600x300x70mm bar and plate core.....so im pretty damn sure i aint goin to be short on fuel or cooling!!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 12:52
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Cool1, i can find out the exact issue tomorrow but im pretty sure they did a story over a few issues. The one i remember had Tony Rigoli's white WRX on the cover when it was the fastest 4WD so its a little old.
I didnt think that a 2J could be engineered in a Celica till tonight. I found a guy who will engineer a lexus v8 twin turbo in my TA22!!!!!!!!!!!!  So it looks like ill be selling my 3TGTEU very soon. 
Jamie.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Wed, 24 July 2002 13:37
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If anyone out there has a scanner and that issue can you please scan it for me! I dont have any issues of zoom and i dont really want to pay for a back order just for one artical!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 00:37
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How soon are we going to get pics of your awesome 2JZGE GT?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 02:38
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Me thinkies GT will become a turbo convert soonly
Allan
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 02:39
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How awesome would a hard-core 2JZGE sound though??
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 02:47
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it will bloody awesome!!! got a really good looking bloke thats gunna make up his exhaust, apparently this guy can make a poxy 5M sound good if not a little LOUD
Allan
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 02:50
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Haha, is this inside information you have about the turbocharger? Or you just stirring? 
Bit loud huh? 107db aint loud, just damaging!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 03:11
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i could tell you but then you would have to give me your MA61!
Allan
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 03:14
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Bah to you...btw, just checking ur site out, whens the 7MGTLPG going to happen?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 25 July 2002 03:18
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when i get full time employment and can get some funds!
Allan
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Fri, 26 July 2002 05:06
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Sorry to jump in on this post a little late, been in hospital on another bad luck run.
Ben, how much boost was your MR2 running at dyno day?
i was only running 14psi, turbo wasn't even close to its efficiency range.
personally i feel it cost mega-bucks to get decent power out of a 1j or 2j. I feel thats the reason why alot of these engines weren't running big numbers. 1st you gotta get rid of the restrictive twins(min $3000 for 1 decent sucker)then an exhuast manifold HAS to be made or purchased(allow $2k)+ min $700 for wastegate, then some decent engine managment(min $1500) and on and on.
So your up for a bare min $5k ontop of the engine before you even get serious.
Its not cost effective, they are only cars and look at the prices of houses in sydney and there is the best reason why alot of people realise its not worth it up here.
min $500,000 for a decent house! now that's serious money
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 30 July 2002 08:34
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Well???
How much has it cost you to get 204kw out of it?
Does it have stock internals or you've done the pistons etc?
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 30 July 2002 10:28
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I agree with SUPRAGTE, it does cost big time $ to get hp out of sixes, though some people have different ideas about what a lot of money really is.
For me at the moment, just about any money is a lot.
I dont think though that it would cost more to make Hp from a 1j than from a 7m, quite the contrary. I dont want to open the 7m reliabillity issue again, I know , SUPRAGTE,that you have had a great deal of success with standard gear. However if you were to build a serious 7m from scratch, a wise move would be to eliminate that possibillty.
To make serious grunt, the kind Ben is talking about, requires the same custom manifolds and expensive turbo whether it goes on a 7m or a 1j.
If you are serious about making big hp though, much less than $10g would see 450+hp at the wheels out of a stock internals 1j, a feat that will soon be proven at least twice by newcastle based cars.
The 1j's did have a shocker on the dyno day, as it turns out you can only blame the owner drivers. My 1j had a hole in the intercooler plumbing you could fit your pinky finger through, when your already running 1 bar with stock turbos any extra work the they have to do results in serious heat being generated. My car detonated badly and only spun up 187rwkw.
Andy's car hit the rollers in warm up mode, I dont know what he was thinking, and run A/f ratios off the scale rich. It had only been tuned that week and spun up 227 rwkw, with spot on 12.3 a/f's.
What can I say, we'll be back to try again.
SupraGTE, I only looked breifly in your engine bay, and noticed a few things, should have looked harder so it seems !!
WHat have you done? , seeing as other "modified" 7mgtes only managed 140 'ish rwkw figures....
Share the wealth.
Matt
[Updated on: Tue, 30 July 2002 10:30] by Moderator
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 30 July 2002 12:28
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My engine is completly stock. It's a wreaking yard motor With the bolt-on's. The engine is an early 4agze no oil jets, 8.0-1 comp. I don't see the point in opening an engine when you haven't yet reached a point where modification is any help. With 10k i think we could make a bit more than 450.
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Tue, 30 July 2002 22:10
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Yeah I was being conservative on the 10k --> 450+rwhp.
There will soon be a couple of 500rwhp 1 and 2j's around.
I am hoping to make 360rwhp, inside of my next $2k, on STANDARD TURBO'S.
Just gotta get saving.
Matt
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Your Supra
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Thu, 01 August 2002 08:32
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You wouldnt be thinking about selling your Supra anytime soon would you ?
Just that I have a bit of spare cash, and if you wanted to sell your car, we might be able to come to some arangement.
Sorry for asking, its just that I'm trying to buy one at present, and I am exploring all options.
SUPRA MAN.
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 01 August 2002 08:37
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Sorry mate, I've not long had it myself.
The journey is only just beggining.
Matt
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 01 August 2002 08:47
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considering i have the cash, and im currently looking to buy, is it rude to ask you how much you paid ?
just to give me an idea ???
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Thu, 01 August 2002 11:57
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i cant wait to see the JZ80 supra that was at the previous dyno day. sorry i forget his name no offence. his 2j would put out some very, very serious hp. I'm not putting out big hp in the real world but i'd say his car will put out double mine!
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Tough Six. Anyone?
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Sat, 03 August 2002 00:34
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I belive the JZA80 is King_J's ... very impressive last time I saw it. Never seen it on the dyno, but I agree it would put out some crazy figures.
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