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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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 ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 02:58
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Hi all,
After completing my epic adventure the other day of sourcing a 7M-GE head from the local pic-a-part wrecker for the princely sum of $83.00 (including GST  ) - Donor vehicle was an '89 MX83 Cressida with 210,000km, good service history and front/side impact damage
The idea with the head was to build up a spare for when the inevitable happens on my 7M-GTE. 
Real Q is, what are peoples experience with ARP head studs vs head bolts ? 
Who has sourced them and got a good price ? Rigoli's want $260, Outlaw (in Adelaide) want $290 for the studs and say the bolts are not brought into Aus, and on eBay, the studs can be bought for USD $115 + $28 shipping, and the bolts are USD $71 + $28 shipping.
Any thoughts ?
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 03:12
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I'm currently using a HKS 2mm metal head gasket with ARP studs on my car. Studs are better because they provide two tension points instead of the single point used on a bolt (thats what i've been told anyway!)
Dan
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 03:14
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By the way - I got my ARP studs from the Victorian Performance Warehouse in... Victoria
http://www.vpwmailorder.com
$250 delivered if i remember correctly.
Dan
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 05:15
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| Danners wrote on Tue, 28 October 2003 14:12 |
I'm currently using a HKS 2mm metal head gasket with ARP studs on my car. Studs are better because they provide two tension points instead of the single point used on a bolt (thats what i've been told anyway!)
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that still makes no sense to me 
what i understand is that studs are a solution to the more practical issue of taking the head on and off repeatedly - as in a race car. makes life much easier, and installing the geasket and head can be done more quickly, with more accurate alignment...
there may be some functional advantage of a nut screwing down onto a stud in terms or more accurate torque readings, but i dare say it anint much...
ps dan - did you have to do anything funky to get a tool onto the nuts in the head on order to tighten them?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 05:43
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I agree with Ed on the point of two tension points - from a Mechanical Engineering point of view there is no difference to the tension applied to the head.
I was planning on going for the bolts, purely as they are cheaper
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 06:37
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To quote from the horses mouth
| Quote: |
HEAD STUDS vs. BOLTS... A TECHNICAL DISCUSSION
ARP®’s factory Tech Representatives are often asked which is better, cylinder head studs or bolts. The answer, invariably, depends on the installation. On many street-driven vehicles, where master cylinders and other items protrude into the engine compartment, it’s probably necessary to use head bolts so that the cylinder heads can be removed with the engine in the car.
For most applications, however, studs are recommended. And for good reason. Using studs will make it much easier to assemble an engine (especially a racing powerplant which must be serviced frequently and quickly!) with the cylinder head and gasket assured of proper alignment.
Studs also provide more accurate and consistent torque loading. Here’s why. When you use bolts to secure the head, the fastener is actually being “twisted” while it’s being torqued to the proper reading. Accordingly, the bolt is reacting to two different forces simultaneously. A stud should be installed in a “relaxed” mode—never crank it in tightly using a jammed nut.
If everything is right, the stud should be installed finger tight. Then, when applying torque to the nut, the stud will stretch only on the vertical axis. Remember, an undercut shorter stud will have a rate similar to a longer, standard shank stud. This provides a more even clamping force on the head. Because the head gasket will compress upon initial torquing, make sure studs and bolts are re-torqued after the engine has been run.
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I think they know their products pretty well 
The difference in price is sweet f*ck all, for the sake of a couple of bucks you'd be nuts not to go for studs imo.
My last motor (7M) ran head and main studs, and rod bolts - there is a problem with running main studs on the 7m-gte (no idea on the ge) where 1 of the studs foul the oil pump. I'm also using ARP head & main studs and rod bolts on my 2j
[Updated on: Tue, 28 October 2003 06:40]
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 06:39
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so, like i said basically 
cheers
ed
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 06:40
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 28 October 2003 17:39 |
so, like i said basically
cheers
ed
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*big middle finger*
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 06:42
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nah, there is more to it, ie torsion of the bolt along its axis during torquing etc, hence "two forces"...
i knew id read that doc excerpt somewhere before...
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 06:46
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stenno, btw - how did you go getting a socket fitting down onto the nut of the head stud? there isnt a whole lot of room in there...
i just went bolts, but then again, im not trying to jam 20psi into the thing. hks mhg + hylomar spray (hope i got it on even enough).
arp rod bolts + big end resize, stuck with stock mains
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 09:47
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The arpbolts site explain it very well....
In my case I used them in a supercharged 4K and bought them direct from California.
Normally in the case of the 4K the head bolts torque to 48 ftlbs, using the studs they are torqued to the recommended 60 ftls. and no problems.....to me that seems like a lot more clamping force and less problems.
regards, kevin
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 12:27
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studs are the go when installed properly!
every little bit helps and why be half assed and only use bolts!
so far melb ->sydney -> dyno run ->melb -> now boost upto 11psi all the time, 5000km later still runing A1
with luck the next 7m HG I do will be on the grunter engine when I rebuild it....
Allan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 28 October 2003 12:52
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I'm going with ARP Studs on my v8. They shelf price of them is $383.00 for the set of 16. Im trying to badger a fella on fordforums to sell me his for 90
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Wed, 29 October 2003 01:54
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heh... see thats what i meant!
I know nothing about studs or bolts really, i was recommended studs by Rod Try (he told me about the two tensioning points) so i bought them because ever since blowing the head gasket on my 7m and rebuilding the engine from the block up myself i've been a little scared of having to do it again understandably
Ed! to answer your question... yes i had the same trouble as it sounds you're having as well in that you cant get a socket over the bolt because the head gets in the way. To fix this i simply shaved the affected parts off the head as they don't seem to provide any structural significance at all except make it look pretty. No problems with the car engine wise since the rebuild!
Dan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Wed, 29 October 2003 12:08
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 28 October 2003 17:46 |
stenno, btw - how did you go getting a socket fitting down onto the nut of the head stud? there isnt a whole lot of room in there...
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I used a deep socket, didn't have any clearance problems that way.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Thu, 30 October 2003 01:38
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use a kingchrome 14mm 3/8 drive no issues at all except for the cam geting in the way!
Allan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Thu, 30 October 2003 10:04
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| Allan wrote on Thu, 30 October 2003 12:38 |
use a kingchrome 14mm 3/8 drive no issues at all except for the cam geting in the way!
Allan
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You're game using 3/8 tools to do up head bolts
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Thu, 30 October 2003 12:12
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nope quality tools like kingchrome 3/8 is not a problem, I used a step down for the 1/2 torque wrench to the 3/8 socket and engine oil as lube so 120ft/lbs
Allan
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Thu, 30 October 2003 12:33
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| Allan wrote on Thu, 30 October 2003 23:12 |
engine oil as lube so 120ft/lbs
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Allan, wtf are you doing??!!??
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Fri, 31 October 2003 10:08
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| Allan wrote on Thu, 30 October 2003 23:12 |
nope quality tools like kingchrome 3/8 is not a problem, I used a step down for the 1/2 torque wrench to the 3/8 socket and engine oil as lube so 120ft/lbs
Allan
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Like I said, You're game - the torque wrench is 1/2" for a reason. I don't care if it was snap-on, there is alot more give in a 3/8" sized socket/bar than a 1/2" unit .
Get the right tools to begin with, simple.
120ft/lbs! crazy decent moly lube is like $10.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Mon, 03 November 2003 09:22
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Why can't you use the 3/8 to do the head bolt ?? just want to know...
cheers
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Mon, 03 November 2003 09:30
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the torque is likely to break the tools
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ARP Headbolts/Studs - experiences/prices ?
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Tue, 04 November 2003 06:46
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When the gasket blows you can hang shit on me, till then i say i went by the ARP guide and 3/4 is fine 
Allan
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