| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 01:41
|
 |
Hi there,
I've used 2 different Microtech MTX-8 on 2 different cars and different settings, but I notice there's always a miss / shudder right at 2000rpm, and it makes the car a dog to drive at low revs because it keeps missing, is this a bug with the Microtech??? Any body had similar problems??
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 02:41
|
|
nope, but I had a similar problem when my crank angle sensor was wired incorrectly - fine to 2000, and absolute bitch to 3000, then on with the boost and she was away.
note: the mtech wiring diagram (for the 1jz in any case) has incorrect wiring for the crank angle sensor. (assuming you've got this on a car with a CAS anyhow  )
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 02:57
|
|
i seems to have the same problem. but not exactly at 2k rpm tho.
it's around 1700-1800 rpm.
And i've heard from some other ppl having the same experience too.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 03:01
|
|
What motor is it on??
it could be the crank angle sensor wiring back to front, the wiring digrams are drawn as looking at the plug on the CAS not the wiring plug, if the wires are back to front you usually get a RPM or home error,
can you tell me what you load settings are and the RPMWOT and RPMcrs, and also the T_inj,
i have never had this problem with a MTX8 on a mazda or toyota motor it could just be the tuning and too much or not enough ign advance
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 03:26
|
|
hi, 10sec_rx7, thought i talked to you a while ago, in performance forums.
mine is a 20v and I guess it's same as gt20v's.
I actually running the standard distributor so there's no CAS.
And from the hand controller, i don't get any error, other than air temp which i don't have.
i think u'r expert in these Microtech ECUs, I really want to come around and do some tunning with u to my car. but just never got the time.
hopefully can meet up with u in Feb when i come back from overseas.
Cheers,
Jin.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 03:35
|
|
ah 20v's
do you still have the quad throttle bodies on them?? if so it will be tuning causing the issues, the quads are a little tricky to tune with, i have to tune one on saturday so i will have some good maps for them very soon,
when you get back to sydney drop me a line, i have use a dyno when ever required now so tuning is not a problem.,
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 03:53
|
|
Thanks.
yeh, I still have the quad throttle bodies. well, that's the main point to get a 20v. 
yeh, heard from someone else that it's quite hard to map a 20v.
I have actually got a set of good working map for the 20v, problem is, it seems it won't run on my one. But I can see why my 20v drinks lots of petrols, it's almost double of the fuel it uses on my 20v.
The fuel map copy that I've got from someone else has ran at least 3 20v with no problem.
I have try put the first half(idle-4500rpm) of the map into my ECU, the car won't even idle. Is there any problem being big difference between the first and second half of the map.
If you want I can send u that fuel map copy. so u can have a good basic to work on.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 03:58
|
|
its not so much hard it just takes a lot of time to get it all right, if your TPS is not calabrated correctly it will not work at all,
email me the map, dale@braidedlines.com and ill have a quick look, as i said ill have some maps next week,
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 04:07
|
|
check that it is right, you need it to read 0 when throttle is closed and 97-99% when full throttle, if it dosent read this you need to adjust it on the throttle body so it does.
send the map and ill give it a look for you
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 07:21
|
|
|
Sounds like its surging. My car did the same.
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 08:31
|
|
hi guys, the 2 engine was 1) a 4age 20v with quad throttle body, and 2)was a 4agze block with a normal small port 4age head, both were running a CAS, but both engines with 2 different Microtechs both done the same thing at 2000rpm...
the RPM error I had with the 20v, but not when it's running, only if it stalls, and only if I start the car again and take off straight away, even if I wait 1-2 seconds before I take off, the RPM error wouldn't appear...
Dale: I saw your name in the other forum you seems very familiar with the Microtechs, hope you can help me on this...  thanks...
the TPS is calibrated, if not the ECU won't know WHEN to idle... both car had surge tanks, and nothing wrong with drive train, it happens at 2000rpm doesn't matter which gear the car is in, but most noticible when at 4th gear and 5th gear, coz the engine is running harder I think...
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 08:34
|
|
also I don't think it'll be a problem with the map, because I tried changing values (all fuel & timing, etc.) before around and after 2000rpm and there's no sudden change in values in the original map, and the problem was still there when I change the values around..
but I haven't check to see if the CAS was connected probably, but I think it should be correct, as I imagine it will be running worst otherwise, not just a simple shudder at 2000rpm I guess?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 11 November 2003 23:14
|
|
Ok i have had a look at Jin's maps,
i can understand why you guys are having the stumble now.
heres the go,
they are running them in MAP and not TPS mapping, this will not work well at all with the quad throttle bodies espically at the low rpm, the map signal is just not strong enough.
also they have a huge jump in the injector timing at this point, i would be smoothing that out,
im going to have a map for the 20v soon! i have to start the install tomorrow night and hopefully i will have it ready to tune on saturday then i can give you guys some more info.
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 01:49
|
|
Hi Dale,
but as I mentioned, I had this on 2 different engines, one a 4age 20v, another on a 4agze/4age turbo, there's only 1-2 degree of timing change between 1000-3000rpm, and the exact same thing happened on 2 different Microtechs... any other possibilities?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 02:20
|
|
both those motors use the same CAS and there for base maps, the timing i am talking about is not ignition timing it is INJECTOR timing, t_inj to be exact, change this to only have a small change and see if the problem goes away
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 02:23
|
|
|
I'll double check the injector timing, but I'm sure I've smooth it out before already and it didn't work, also I think the car was tuned under matrix mode, so there's not really a base map, I check it out and get back to you..
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 02:26
|
|
Ah yours is a LTX8??
matrix mode is a pain in the ass to trouble shoot!
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 05:19
|
|
|
is it? I thought it's MTX-8, you should know more than me... but I remember the laptop software is LX or something...
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 05:21
|
|
|
so you reckon which mode is more "economical"? because $30 of fuel gives me about 240km at the moment which is about 14-15L / 100km which is more like the fuel consumption of a very badly tuned rotary??
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 06:03
|
|
ok if it has matrix mode it is a LTX8, have a look and see if the ecu has a laptop sticker on the back,
the matrix mode works very well but takes a lot longer to tune,
both modes can give great economy when tuned right!
i got 11L/100km in my rx7 with my LTX12 tuned in normal mode with 1200cc primary injectors,
my misses car gets 350km to 20L of petrol in her turbo starlet with a LT8,
id say yours just needs a good tune and you should get well under 10L/100
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 12:17
|
|
I personally don't care if it's Matrix or Normal mode as long as it works..
yes, it has the laptop stick, and I've got the software and adaptor too...
but 350km / 20L (5.7L / 100km) sounds unreal for the starlet, as a N/A Mitsubishi Mirage only gets 7.2L/100km or 4.8L/100km Highway, and it's 69kw (highway city combined will be 6.5L/100km?) Can't believe a turbo starlet to have better economy of a stock Mirage...
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 23:05
|
|
If it has the laptop sticker it is a MTX upgraded to a LTX, basically all the same functions,
the stock toyota ecu's suck, that 5.7L/100 was 95% freeway driving it is not quite that good around the town but still gets around 420 to a tank, i needs a good dyno as it stumbles when it comes onto boost as it is still a little rich,
toyotas can have a lean cruse like no other motor, they will cruse nice at 16.5:1 but my mazda will stumble at 14.5:1 but it still gets 11L/100 on the freeway (dont ask what the city driving is
Dale
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 23:12
|
|
|
C'mon, tell us what city driving is...it'll make us never complain how bad our fuel consumption is again
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 23:16
|
|
HAHAH ok
on a drive through the city on a weekend i will get 200km to 35L petrol,
thats on 11psi boost, it makes 351rwhp on 11.5psi,
Dale
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 23:19
|
|
|
Not as bad as I was expecting at all. How come factory rotaries get such bad fuel consumption? Are they just really conservative and just run them rich? I know the RX8 starts using over 20l/100km if you give it stick, and its got no-way near that power.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 12 November 2003 23:33
|
|
its not the best either!!
factory computers are tame, they run rich as hell, take a GEN3 commo, they run 11.2 mixtures in the top end! thats richer than i tune most turbo cars to! a stock WRX will run into the 10.6 range at full throttle!
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Thu, 13 November 2003 01:42
|
|
|
yeah I notice the motor will cruise pretty well when lean, but there's always those popping noise from the exhaust, hahaha...
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Thu, 13 November 2003 04:35
|
|
|
hahah thats generally too lean then!!
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Thu, 13 November 2003 08:10
|
|
yeah, it became too annoying so I tune it back slightly till it goes away... hahaa...
hey I had a look at your website but you didn't even have an address on it, where are you located? I want to get some stainless steel intercooler piping made, maybe a bigger intercooler, and install a wastegate, and get it tuned properly, do you charge an arm and a leg for your labour?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Thu, 13 November 2003 21:42
|
|
We are located in Castle Hill in sydney,
we do all cooler pipeing work etc at castle hill exhaust centre,
labour is not to bad, we did some stainless pipes on a VL and it cost him about $650, there was no cutting to the car and the pipes went all over the place to clear things,
give me a call on 0412 044 456 and we can have a chat
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Fri, 14 November 2003 02:12
|
|
|
what about tuning and installing wastegate + intercooler? how much damage to my wallet would I be expecting?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Fri, 14 November 2003 02:18
|
|
what wastegate do you want?? what turbo do you have? we can get the PSR and Turbosmart gates,
Intercooler mounting it cant be too hard,
give me a call and tell me exactly what you want done and what you will supply and what you want me to supply, and i can give you a price for the parts then we will have more idea on the labor
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Fri, 14 November 2003 04:07
|
|
Hi Dale,
it's better for me to type it up rather than call you because I know I'll forget things on the phone...
I've got the wastegate, haven't found an intercooler yet, may need a BOV, either silent version, or one that plumbs back, may need an air filter..
the turbo I've got is T28
do you actually have a shop that I can come over?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Fri, 14 November 2003 04:14
|
|
OK
so you want the gate fitted to the standard manafold??
yes you can come down to castle hill exhuast centre any time and ask for Dave Jnr, he is my partener in www.braidedlines.com he does all the intercooler pipes, exhaust manafolds etc, i do all the computers, dyno work, boost controllers etc,
ill be down there tomorrow morning after about 10:30 if you want to come down,
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Mon, 17 November 2003 11:13
|
|
|
oh, I couldn't make it, so I can go to that place and get a quote for the plumbing and intercooler? coz I don't have an intercooler yet, what size would I need for around 15psi??
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Mon, 17 November 2003 21:11
|
|
get the biggest cooler you can find at the best price, the hybrid coolers sold on ebay are very good value for money, a mate has one on his 200sx and it seems to work a treat,
Just pop down to the exhaust shop and he will give you a quote on the pipes etc,
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 18 November 2003 13:52
|
|
|
do you mean "water to air" intercooler when you say hybrid??
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 18 November 2003 21:03
|
|
No
there is a brand of intercoolers called hybrid, they are good quality and cheap, they are air to air
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 19 November 2003 01:52
|
|
|
from all the ones in the ebay, which one would you recommend for a Sprinter with 4agte?
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 19 November 2003 01:54
|
|
|
or what core size do you recommend, because I want to know if my current intercooler is sufficient?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Wed, 19 November 2003 03:28
|
|
ill do a search when i get some time,
what size is the current one?? is it a nice alloy core or a toyota one??
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Mon, 24 November 2003 21:07
|
|
i dont know if it will fit straight in but nothing a air saw couldnt fix, 
i have a 4agze coming in this week for a ecu and cooler pipes, it has the biggest nevo pulley on it and should make 14psi,
my misses starlet runs 14psi on a stock NA motor no problems with no intercooler!!, it is all in the tune, if it pings it will break! there is no reason why you couldnt run 18+psi on the motor.
the s4/5 rx7 coolers are the best of what you have listed there, they work a treat, we are turning one into a water to air for the misses car, it might be a good thing for you to think of doing as they work very well and dont take up a lot of space.
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 25 November 2003 00:12
|
|
but the RX7 S5 is a air to air right?
what is the core size of that compared to the Hybrid one? coz the cost is 10 times less of the hybrid, I know it's a brand new one with bar and plate, but is it THAT much better? (I need your opinion coz you seen more of these than I do... )
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 25 November 2003 00:15
|
|
yes the RX7 is air to air, but we are encasing the core and will use it as water to air, i have a pump off a subi liberty water to air cooler and will use a air con condensor to cool the water,
the rx7 ones are about 40cm long and 20-25cm wide, not the biggest cores but work a treat, i had one front mounted on my rx7 and it used to hold the air temps at about 50deg on a 30 deg day and that was after a 1st to 4th gear thrash, so they work pretty well.
if cost is a issue i would get the rx7 one.
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 25 November 2003 03:02
|
|
sorry, just noticed this thread.
i'ts not odd that you have the shudder. it's normally only associated with engines with quad throttles, because the microtech is rather broad in it's mapping on-the-run and quad throttles can change the airflow drastically with a twitch of the pedal.
both MTX8 and LTX8 are laptop programmable. put in matrix mode and tune it there, it'll take longer but it will eliminate the problem, i promise.
10secRX7 hit the nail on the head with
they are running them in MAP and not TPS mapping, this will not work well at all with the quad throttle bodies espically at the low rpm, the map signal is just not strong enough.
also they have a huge jump in the injector timing at this point, i would be smoothing that out,
good luck dude.
[Updated on: Tue, 25 November 2003 03:04]
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 25 November 2003 03:27
|
|
the other thing i noticed is if they are using the aux output for the cam timing the stock microtech base map has it set to swap at 2000 rpm which is way too low, needs to be at 4000-4500,
also at the point where the cam swaps over the maps will take a big big change, this is not as easy to tune out with a MTX8, either way it will take about 2 hours on the dyno to sort it all out.
not all the MTX8 are laptop programable, only the very last of them were, or the ones that have been upgraded, if they havent been upgraded they wont have matrix mode. and you will have to use the RPM wot to clean up the change in cam timing
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 25 November 2003 09:36
|
|
nah, the 20v I had turns on the VVT at about 4380rpm, I have no problems with that, can't feel a thing when changing over, except the sound.
so if the RX7 core keeps the air temp 50C @ 30C day, what temp. will the Hybrid do?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Tue, 25 November 2003 21:20
|
|
the hybrid will keep them about 5-10 above ambent, the cooler i have on my car now is a lot bigger than the hybrid core (550x450x80) and it will hold the air temps just above ambient,
Dale
|
|
|
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Fri, 05 December 2003 00:08
|
|
Hi Dale,
currently I'm working on the paint job, after that I'll start redoing the intercooler and pipings, but it may have to wait a few more weeks because this week have been raining and I can't get on with the paint job (it's done under a carport, the humity too high, creating blisters) so I'll get back to you probably earlier next year.. thanks
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: Microtech MTX-8 problems...
|
Fri, 05 December 2003 00:28
|
|
|
no worries at all dude
|
|
|
