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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:45
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Two things to say:
'7M-GTE'
'Another one bites the dust'
Need I say more??
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:47
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Nasty
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:50
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How did it happen? What happened?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:50
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I don't know whether to repair, or replace or replace with 1JZ.
Someone help me, I'm bordering on crying 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:51
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 21:50 |
How did it happen? What happened?
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Showed no signs of having a BHG... Until it overheated and then when I filled the radiator up it frothed like a dog with rabies.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 12:37
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hks mhg: 270
arp bolts: 240
machining: 80
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:08
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I have decided to fix it.
I am gonna go it properly.
Any links to some sites that will give me some detailed information about what to do? Reckon I should do it all myself, or pay someone? I'm quite mechanically minded, but not overly.
Cheers
Paul
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:10
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And what torque should I torque the head to with the HKS gasket and ARP bolts?
And where do I get these from?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:22
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72ft/lb
could probably go a little more with the ARP bolts, but no need for much
and if the owner did it 7000 ago, he didn't do it properly
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:27
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You can get the gasket from Greenline or Takakaira. At the moment with the strong Australian dollar it works out to be alot cheaper now. ARP head bolts (don't go studs unless you are looking for 600hp and are removing the engine) you can get from most Auto shops to order them in for you.
With the metal head gasket the head will need a mirror finish job done and the deck will need a proper clean up. Some copper spary also helps. The Torque specs come with the ARP bolts along with its own lube.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:37
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| draven wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 23:22 |
72ft/lb
could probably go a little more with the ARP bolts, but no need for much
and if the owner did it 7000 ago, he didn't do it properly
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Good to hear.
It was done professionally, I have all the receipts for the work done to the car.
| wastegate wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 23:27 |
You can get the gasket from Greenline or Takakaira. At the moment with the strong Australian dollar it works out to be alot cheaper now. ARP head bolts (don't go studs unless you are looking for 600hp and are removing the engine) you can get from most Auto shops to order them in for you.
With the metal head gasket the head will need a mirror finish job done and the deck will need a proper clean up. Some copper spary also helps. The Torque specs come with the ARP bolts along with its own lube.
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Is Greenline or Takakaira in Australia or do I need to get it in from Japan?
Is it necessary to get the HKS gasket? I don't plan on doing too many mods to it... I'm pretty happy with the performance as it is.
I'm over the shock now, but I'm still pretty pissed off! Any help is muchly appreciatted.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:41
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It would be the only gasket I would "trust". Sure you can go and put a copper gasket in and get out of it alittle cheaper but there is a reason why the HKS one is the most common.
No you will have to get it from Japan. But as I said with the Australian dollar now it is at the moment it's not that big of deal.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:46
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man that fn sux! i feel your pain! and i'm nervous as hell about doing the same to my 7mgte. It had the headgasket replaced about 18months ago at toyota. last week when i had the cam covers off i re-torqued the headbolts to a convervative (but better) 68lb
some bolts on the inlet side were very loose! I'm sure it's only a matter of time before my headgasket goes. I'm thinking of just going 1jz the next time it blows a headgasket.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:47
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Looks like HKS will be the one.
I am so pissed off about this...
But now atleast I can do it properly and hopefully never worry about it again.
Anyone in Bris who's done it before that can lend a hand?
Also, how long would it take? And why is it not blowing steam, showing mayo in the oil cap or any other symptoms? Only frothing coolant (which I just had flushed and Toyota red put in)...
Cheers
Paul
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 13:48
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| dingaling wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 23:46 |
man that fn sux! i feel your pain! and i'm nervous as hell about doing the same to my 7mgte. It had the headgasket replaced about 18months ago at toyota. last week when i had the cam covers off i re-torqued the headbolts to a convervative (but better) 68lb
some bolts on the inlet side were very loose! I'm sure it's only a matter of time before my headgasket goes. I'm thinking of just going 1jz the next time it blows a headgasket.
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I don't think I'll be bothering with it. I don't wanna spend that much money when I can hopefully fix the 7M for good and having a fantastic engine producing good power.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 14:08
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Ok, so a checklist of things I'll need to do.
* Remove head and have it machined
* Purchase HKS metal head gasket
* Purchase ARP head bolts
* Clean out cylinders and pistons (of what exactly, what am I looking for?)
* Put back together and torque down to 75?
Am I missing anything?
Thanks
Paul
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 14:52
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| ViNcEnXo wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 23:47 |
Looks like HKS will be the one.
<snip>
Anyone in Bris who's done it before that can lend a hand?
Also, how long would it take? And why is it not blowing steam, showing mayo in the oil cap or any other symptoms? Only frothing coolant (which I just had flushed and Toyota red put in)...
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must have blown between oil+water, but not yet into a combustion chamber.
i've not done/replaced a 7M headgasket, but i'm keen to look at the damage a dead one has caused.
...plus now that g/friend is doing a post-grad IT degree i got lotsa free time on my hands 
charles.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 21:38
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| thechuckster wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 00:52 |
| ViNcEnXo wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 23:47 |
Looks like HKS will be the one.
<snip>
Anyone in Bris who's done it before that can lend a hand?
Also, how long would it take? And why is it not blowing steam, showing mayo in the oil cap or any other symptoms? Only frothing coolant (which I just had flushed and Toyota red put in)...
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must have blown between oil+water, but not yet into a combustion chamber.
i've not done/replaced a 7M headgasket, but i'm keen to look at the damage a dead one has caused.
...plus now that g/friend is doing a post-grad IT degree i got lotsa free time on my hands
charles.
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Well, I'll let you all know what the deal is.
I really would love to attempt it myself, but have no where to do it. Anyone got a shed/garage they can loan me?
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Location:
Mornington Peninsula
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 21:52
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I know that feeling, I have I'm onto my second 18R-C block and my thrid head! When these things happen you really wonder why you bother with cars, it can be so depressing.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 21:55
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What if the head is warped so far beyong repair?
And worse, is it possible the block could be warped?
Trying to work out why it's gone after 7000k's.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:04
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Vincenxo
Bugger, I will probably have the same thing happen to me at some stage. I am getting prepared however and alreaduy have a spare head, a headgasket (ACL Composite - bargain price but may still go HKS MHG) and ARP studs on the way from the states.
Ed,
With the MHG, I have read heaps about lapping and machining the block. Is this an Urban legend, strongly suggested or not really worth it ? If I was building a 500HP + engine, I'd do it as the engine would get a full rebuild, but for my plans, I don't want to do that.
Some extra guidance would be appreciated
Any porting tips or recommendadtions ?
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:07
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Yeah, I probably would have been prepared too if I had the car long enough.
And same questions about the block I'm asking.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:09
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I may be wrong (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am  ) but if anything has warped, I'd guess that the head would warp before the block (alloy vs cast-iron).
Good luck with getting it fixed!
BTW. I'd also "consider" speaking to the people who did the work 7,000kms ago... 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:13
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I will be speaking to them...
Yeah, I have come to terms with the head being warped, but am worried about the block being warped.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:17
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The gasket went in my MZ a year ago and i fixed the whole thing with the help of my dad... it was a fairly easy job but incredibly time consuming! You need small hands to work on these things 
If you need any information or progressive photos that i took along my "journey" i'm more than happy to provide. I used a TRD gasket that i bought from Penrith Toyota here in NSW (they ship Australia wide, ARP studs that i got from the Victorian Performance Warehouse and my dad, being a fitter and turner machined the head himself.
The hardest part of the whole exercise was when i took the head off and turned it upside down to see if there was any damage... all of the exhaust and intake shimms fell on the floor. Talk about a jigsaw puzzle!
so 1 year later and a fairly moderate 143rwkw i'm pretty happy with it!
Dan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:19
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Oh.. by the way if the car didn't overheat when it blew i'd say the block warping chances are very minimal, unless a warped block from the previous job is the reason it went again
Dan
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:20
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yup, check your PM.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:25
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Danners,
I'd love to see some photos and a chronicle of your journey .
Please email any info to michael.bachmann@holden.com.au
I may do mine as a case of preventitive maintenance 
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:38
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I'll bring them in to work on Monday
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota_soarer/
ViNcEnXo: go and join that group. Its dedicated to gz and mz Soarer owners in Australia. They've helped me a lot in the past
Dan
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 00:31
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Hmm... The 7M-BHG
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 00:55
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It did overheat...
What do I do if the block is warped?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 01:19
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Have you ever seen a bare 7M block? The chances of warping something as solid as that seems pretty slim... as mentioned above, the alloy head will give long before the iron block will.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 04:31
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can i just say something... if the headgasket was done recently it was probably already machined, and heads can only be machined a very small amount before they need to be replaced. when a head that was warped is machined, each cylinder will have a different compression ratio. just think if the head was bent like a bananna and machined flat, cylinder 1 and 6 would have a higher compression ratio than the rest. also when the head is machined it changes the valve timing ever so slightly, but if you machine too much it changes more.
SO, what im saying is check that it is warped first and only machine if absolutely necessary.
if the block is warped which is VERY unlikely and needs to decked, other things have to be taken into account such as piston protrusion and possible valve interferance, PLUS all the other problems asociated with maching the head. if the block is warped which it wont be, get a new one.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 04:37
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Yeah... I am aware of this which is why I will be purchasing the 2.0mm HKS metal head gasket.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 04:54
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the block doesnt get warped but as ed's machinist found, the 7M deck ends up with depressions and raised areas across board.
so even if u do machine the head it wont be mating to an entirely flat surface anyways
do it properly, get the head AND deck machined
then hks mhg: $270, arp bolts: $240
you wont have any troubles after this.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 04:59
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i dissagree with decking it but neh. 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 06:48
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Sorry to hear about your bhg mate ive just done the same thing mine only lasted 5000 k's and 3 months, moral of the story: avoid stock headgeaskets like the plague! Anyway i just ordered a HKS metal headgasket from penrith toyota, it cost $240 + $8 postage to adelaide and they said it'd take a couple of days (but i haven't recieved it yet) their phone number is 02 47392722. Best of luck.
Drew.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 06:52
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one other thing
USE TOYOTA (RED) LONG LIFE COOLANT
on a standard 7m, this stuff massively reduces the instances of BHG problems, and I know of a guy running 10psi and a FMIC, with totally stock engine, head gasket, and torque setting, who's had no troubles simply by using TLLC.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 06:59
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Draven: paul just bought some and im assuming he flushed it and put it in!
Paul: when the hell did this happen?! seemed fine the other day eh!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 07:03
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Also, my block had a high spot near number 2 cylinder which caused coolent to leak into number 2 and a bit into number one. You can check the block with a straight edge. The place where i got the work done has draw filed the block to get rid of the high spot and apparently this is a satisfactory substitute to ripping the whole enigne out and facing the block.
This fault, ive been told, is caused by lack of stress relief during the casting process when manufactued.
Drew.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 12:41
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| EVOSTi wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 15:31 |
heads can only be machined a very small amount before they need to be replaced
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only because of cam timing issues, which is EASILY accounted for
| EVOSTi wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 15:31 |
when a head that was warped is machined, each cylinder will have a different compression ratio.
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we're talking about 'warpage' of maybe a few thou, and its not usually banana like, but twisted along the long axis. will effect c/r only marginly.
| EVOSTi wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 15:31 |
if the block is warped which is VERY unlikely and needs to decked
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blocks dont warp, but settle over service life. they also pit with corrosion, and score when the h/g blows
| EVOSTi wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 15:31 |
other things have to be taken into account such as piston protrusion and possible valve interferance
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this will not be an issue with a 7M... trust me on this one
cheers
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Fri, 21 November 2003 12:49
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 09:04 |
With the MHG, I have read heaps about lapping and machining the block. Is this an Urban legend, strongly suggested or not really worth it ?
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worth doing once, and doing right, in my opinion.
my block, with no major failure history, had lots of significant undulations (+8 thou) across the deck surface, simply from the material settling down over it's 15y life. this is very common on the m series.
lapping is really unecessary, and very hard to do properly anyway... simply get a GOOD machinist to do all your machine work, and make sure the final finish is as close to mirror like as possible. a skilled machinist can do this, wheras dodgy guys will leave obvious swirl marks across the surface = bad
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Another one bites the dust
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Sun, 23 November 2003 22:38
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| mk27m wrote on Fri, 21 November 2003 18:03 |
Also, my block had a high spot near number 2 cylinder which caused coolent to leak into number 2 and a bit into number one. You can check the block with a straight edge. The place where i got the work done has draw filed the block to get rid of the high spot and apparently this is a satisfactory substitute to ripping the whole enigne out and facing the block.
This fault, ive been told, is caused by lack of stress relief during the casting process when manufactued.
Drew.
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Drew,
Who did your machining work in Adelaide ? When your's went after 5,000km, who had done the work before ? Where ARP studs/bolts used ?
Ed,
Thanks for clearing that up.
What is considered "too much of a high" that the block needs to be decked ?
Cheers
Michael B
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