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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Tue, 25 November 2003 01:41
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Hi guys .. Ive managed to track one of these setups complete from a dismantler - just need a few questions answered ..
For starters - how difficult is it to install into a stock st185 for those who have tried it and what boost limits can the intercooler handle ( im looking for around 20 PSI at the end of the rebuild )
Also regarding the intercooler water pump - is it better to have it on all the time while ignition is on - or have it temerature sensing to kick in at a certain level ?
My new ECu should be able to handle the Waterpump temp thing when it goes in as well ..
Also - is there any benifits ( bar a cheaper cost ) to getting one of these over a front mounted air to air setup ?
i know A decent front mount will cost me more than what the W to A is going to cost me - plus theres the addition of trying to get all the piping in around stuff whereas the w to a fits on where the other came off.
Ease of setup maybe? more boost ability? cooler charge ?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Tue, 25 November 2003 02:39
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There are two main benefits in this a/w setup over a/a for a street car. 1st off is the flow path is 5 times shorter so throttle response is better with the a/w. Second is the cooler works straight off the line and is effectively dumping heat while stationary.
At the end of the day though it all comes down to the hp you are looking for. The a/w will handle the heat generated by 19psi OK with the CT26 so a bigger more efficient compressor will be no probs at all. Once you start generating really big flow though i have found the intake charge passes thru the IC so quickly it doesn't get the chance to cool. This was with the much larger and better flowing 205 IC though so probably won't effect the 185 one as badly. I use an ERL WI kit to supplement the IC.
To fit tou will need the brackets as well as they are different on the non GrpA. Run the pump all the time, very noticeable benefits in cooling. Sheild the thing as best you can from heat sink in the engine bay. Wrap the sides and base with thermo tec adhesive tape and see if someone can make you up an alloy heat sheild to sit between the engine and IC.
A big well designed frontmount is the ultimate but the a/w is generally good enough and easily supplemented with WI if required.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Tue, 25 November 2003 03:16
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What are peoples thoughts about rotating the compressor housing so the turbo outlet is pointing downwards?
Might reduce the pipework length required.. hence improve the response... and make it look less like an explosion in a plumbers shop.. ie : http://www.alltrac.net/images/intercooler/SupraFro ntIC2.jpg
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Tue, 25 November 2003 09:21
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Cheers justen - your a wealth of Gt4 info!
So - basically as long as the setup is complete - its a fairly easy swap to bolt in for street car use, will handle 17 - 20 PSi from say a Highflowed ct26 ( or garret setup like yours?) with no dramas , and work even better with a Water injection setup assisting it ?
Also shielding it will lower temps in the intercooler from heatsoak - so help it cool charge better?
I remeber being told that for example 16 PSI on a highflowed turbo is similar to a higher psi level on a standard turbo - so in theory should generate less heat at lower boost BUT still deliver the same amount of power or moreso ?Also i have found the group A bonnet this came off , and will be getting that too - so that ALSO should aid in lowering underbonnet temps further when i remove the silly grate thing that blocks the hole
In your oppinions - its worth investing in this in favour of a Air to Air setup ( priced somewhere in the vicinity of 1500 easy for a decent one installed )
I can buy the bonnet and the W to A setup for less then this AND have it installed and painted to match my car for the price if a really decent A/A intercooler seeing my car will never be a totally insane Gt4 - just a mildly scary one that looks sweet as ! 
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Tue, 25 November 2003 11:55
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ok - so a reducer/adaptor would need to be made to fit the intercooler to the throttle body .. mine does have a smaller one than a group a - i think grp a is 55 mm - whereas mines 50 ..
Pipings always gunna be a shit - i know thats coming - and to mount the heat exchangr will rely on getting in under the bumperbar ..
Ill probably see about getting the ECU wired in to control the pump for constant flow when it goes in as well - otherwise ill runi it constant at a set voltage
Anyone able to get some detailed pictures on the mounting points etc of the unit for me - to work off ?
ie how the intercooler mounts - where the pump mounts , where the heat exhanger goes - and where the piping runs ...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Wed, 26 November 2003 02:26
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Like i said if you have the brackets the IC will bolt straight up. It'll line up with the turbo perfect and the throttle body but you'll need an adaptor for the trottle bod or get a GrpA one.
As for the pump and lines, you have all the bolt holes etc in place (the 184 does not) so it's just a matter of bolting it all up...should be easy if a little time consuming.
as for the eternal question a/a or a/w? there are endless debates about this everywhere on the web. I said that for a street car there are some adavntages but the ultimate is a big FMIC. I kept the a/w because i knew i could make it work well and it's in keeping with the GrpA...i didn't want to butcher a GrpA too much.
20psi would be pushing a 185 a/w but with WI no probs at all. And yes a bigger turbo *generally* is more efficient at a higher boost than a smaller factory turbo so for the same boost level there's greater air flow and less heat.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: St185 group A W to A intercooler questions
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Wed, 26 November 2003 07:11
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Cheers again justen - i owe you a coldie at dubbo 
as far as i was told this intercooler kit has EVERYTHING needed - its straight off a car that was parted for the motor and gearbox - so im hoping to hell it has all the brackets - if not -out comes mistwer angle grinder for my patented " classique 71 " customisation services..
Sounds like its got the thumbs up from all involved in answering my questions and should help with my goal of making a better group A
As a side note i ordered the 3 inch HPC coated dump pipe and midpipe/cat today - should be hear early next week ! whee !
also toyota bites for the cost of gaskets for exhausts .. bastards! Oh well i have to win some and loose some to make my car happy
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