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Location:
Brisbane, Mango Hill
Registered:
November 2003
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4AGE into a 4AFE
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Thu, 27 November 2003 00:30
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hello all...
I'm new here, so be nice... 
Ive read these forums alot and i notice that the question of 4AGE vs 4AGZE comes up a lot, so I'm not gonna ask them cause Ive already decided on a 4AGE from what Ive read on this forum... basically what I'm after is a guide on how much i should be paying and how long it should take.
i have a couple of questions:
1) Can the 4age engine be easily swapped for a 4afe?
2) Is there a lot of rewiring that needs doing?
3) How difficult is the whole job?
4) What is a guesstimate of how much it will cost? (labour wise)
5) How long will the conversion take to do?
Thanks HEAPS in advance
Ashley
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Fri, 28 November 2003 05:57
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i assume u mean swap the fe for the ge, not the other way around.
because why would you want to swap a 4age for a 4afe?
which 4age do you want?
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Fri, 28 November 2003 06:21
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Partial thread hi-jack here.
FWIW I'm not building any more 4AGE's because out of the six different 4AFE heads I've found so far, two are very bloody good indeed, and are better in just about every way than any 4AGE head.
(But I'm going to build a 7AGTE 20v though ....)
If you cna get one with the right head, I have no doubts it'd go very well indeed - Mine is currently getting parts gathered up to build it from March next year.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Fri, 28 November 2003 06:26
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Wow Bill thats a big switch, care to share the specs/ basis of the reasoning behind the change? 
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Fri, 28 November 2003 12:10
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Reasons for -
- 31mm buckets, so big cams aren't a problem at all.
- Narrower valve angle, 22.5°.
- MUCH better inlet port.
Reasons against -
- Squish areas are located in four areas Vs the G head's two large ones. I haven't measured them as such but I'd say the F head has about the same total area anyway though. So with work they're probably just as good but it's more work to get right.
- Hard to alter the lobe centres WRT each other unless you build a very small slotted drive gear between the cams.
- The exhaust ports also need a lot of work to get right. Cyls #2 & #3 are not too bad, but #1 & #4 are angled and need more work than the middle two. I plan on using ovaled ports, this'll make the job of making all the ports the same much easier.
- People think you're barking mad!
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Fri, 28 November 2003 23:11
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Well not really Mad, ive always believed the FE head is better for low to mid range power, but the main constraint was always top end flow, i dont know if spending a large amount of time changing the squish and flow areas will give an equal benefit to the GE head in terms of maximum output for a lot less work.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Sat, 29 November 2003 01:20
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Ive heard similat things about the 2t head VS 2tg head .. regarding flow and design ..
i wonder if its a common toyota thing
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Sat, 29 November 2003 04:51
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| IRA11Y wrote on Sat, 29 November 2003 10:11 |
Well not really Mad, ive always believed the FE head is better for low to mid range power, but the main constraint was always top end flow, i dont know if spending a large amount of time changing the squish and flow areas will give an equal benefit to the GE head in terms of maximum output for a lot less work.
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Have you seen the head I'm talking about? It's not very common, like the crappy ones that are on the vast majority of 4AFE's.
I've no doubt that doing all that work will make the chamber a better one than a 16v, as I'm going to do some tricky stuff with the squish areas. Yes, it's hard to do but getting a lot of power out of little engines isn't always easy. 
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Sat, 29 November 2003 05:22
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Oh i diddnt know there were different series FE heads Bill? are they different depending on Carb or EFI series? or is it year by year?
got some comparitive pics of the heads?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Sat, 29 November 2003 05:28
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that certainly was a good thread hijack!
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Sun, 30 November 2003 01:33
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I do agree with bill, the only hassle I've had is those dam gear drives!... But I do have a few Ideas and sketches and excess of heads and gears to get something happening, but time is the thing I'm currently lacking. Another prob which can be easily fixed with these heads is the small exhaust valves which make them prone to ping if left in standard form. Any way the line up of FE heads is such... Eariler, late, 4AFE, 7AFE, Multi coil setup, and a couple of T-vis types-> One of the T-vis would be what Bill has and the ones I can't use (Anyone want one??)
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Location:
Brisbane, Mango Hill
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Sun, 30 November 2003 21:48
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| STR8 2.8 wrote on Fri, 28 November 2003 16:57 |
i assume u mean swap the fe for the ge, not the other way around.
because why would you want to swap a 4age for a 4afe?
which 4age do you want?
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yeah, swap an fe for a ge...
i dont really know as of yet... but im tending to go towards the silvertop... but what i want is an engine that will drop in without having to do modifications...
is this possible?
THanks
Ash
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Mon, 01 December 2003 01:53
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No, the head I'm using isn't the TVIS head, though it's similar.
This is what they looks like ->
THe one I'm talking about has only a single port, but it also comes down into the chamber at about a 45° angle like the twin-port one does. Very nice indeed.
FWIW, there's three basic types -
- The crappy side-port type.
- The type pictured above.
- The third type I mention above.
The 1st & 2nd types have either the injectors in the head or the manifold. The 3rd type has slightly different port dividers but they both have the injectors in the manifold.
There may be more subtle varaitions, but I haven't found them yet.
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Mon, 01 December 2003 02:40
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Bill looks very similar...doh!! I haven't uploaded the pic's on my page yet!! The two I have, have got a a bunch of butterflys mounted in a sandwich plate that fits between the Manifold and the head... Give me sometime and I'll finish the web page with every single 'A' series head that was sold.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Mon, 01 December 2003 05:35
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Does the single port have a smaller area on one side? just imagining the head above machined out, is there a reason the secondary ports are smaller (TVIS butterfly side? )
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Tue, 02 December 2003 05:09
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| Quote: |
(TVIS butterfly side? )
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from looking at the ones I have, the answer is yes, but I don't think Bill has machining the middle out in mind...
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Wed, 03 December 2003 18:23
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| IRA11Y wrote on Mon, 01 December 2003 16:35 |
Does the single port have a smaller area on one side? just imagining the head above machined out, is there a reason the secondary ports are smaller (TVIS butterfly side? )
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Nah, the single port head has a rectangular hole.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Wed, 03 December 2003 22:11
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extremely interesting findings here bill...indeed.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE into a 4AFE
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Thu, 04 December 2003 03:38
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Nah, the single port head has a rectangular hole.
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not for long i expect
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