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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 06:20
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Simple question, Would you class the scraped 427 coupe as a supercar (I'd rather not call it a monaro)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 06:23
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i voted yes.. but i wouldnt really class it as one.. its all race rather than a car meant for street use and stuff.... and has nothing in common other than looks with its "brother"
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 06:43
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Supercar.
How about we look at the cars it beat 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 06:51
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did any mclaren f1's enter
not street ones but race ready ones?
or any of toyota's f1 cars or mclaren clk gtr types
that mighta been fair
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 06:55
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My point exactly the package has proven itself two years running over the porsches and ferarri's. the specs are comparable to those of a supercar. So why wouldn't it be a supercar? (if produced) It was scraped because Holden/HSV/HRT beleived that the 50 cars they were going to produce were to be used as race cars and only a small proportion were going to be road registered. but a survrey of the 50 people found that they would nearly all be road registered. Holden scraped the idea for *safty* reasons and the cost blow out (which they were concidering accepting the loss for promotional reasons).
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 06:56
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Did someone say Diablo, F360GT, BMW GTR?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 07:02
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was the diablo stripped out with a fully tuned engine over its stock?
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 07:10
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| Jag7799 wrote on Thu, 27 November 2003 18:02 |
was the diablo stripped out with a fully tuned engine over its stock?
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You can't strip much out of a diablo
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 08:50
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Regardless of the car, or it's race preparedness, if I can't take my bulging wallet to the dealer and buy one, it's not a supercar, but a race special.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 09:02
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And sydney dealers stock how many Maclaren F1's, Ferrari F50's etc?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 09:09
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| BlackSupra wrote on Thu, 27 November 2003 17:56 |
Did someone say Diablo, F360GT, BMW GTR?
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Did someone say "Holden" and "$475,000" in the same sentence?
(That's right, I did!)
The argument seems more based on the following:
Monaro = Purpose-built, Bathurst 24 hour vehicle.
Ferrari, Lambo = Road-going cars (yes, they can actually be purchased in similar spec), "modded" for racing.
Mosler = Road/race car which is substantially cheaper than the afore-mentioned Monaro.
BMW M3R = hard-done by Monaro "shunt" victim
Given the sponsorship $, I doubt it would be that difficult to source and build a Bullet Roadster SS which would, in the hands of a competent crew of mechanics/drivers, run consistent 2:18-2:20 times, giving it a realistic chance of outright honours, at considerably less than the cost of a Monaro...IMHO, of course. (At least we know the engine would cope with it!  )
/end rant (Sorry, but it gets up my nose that people are "marketing" generic GMH products on the strength of a car which bears almost no resemblence to the road-going version...)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 09:24
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Im not at all defending the Monaro, but more my view point
The Ferrari F360GT was a race spec only, purpose built car.
There was also a race only porsche, however im not aware of its name.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 09:32
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the 427 coupe has been cruising around all season as to get the least amount of parity. That is one reason why they were so much faster than the other teams. Another reason is that they have millions of dollars and have a professional v8 supercar team to back them up. And even with all of that Garry Rogers was complaining about his air restrictors even though the ferrari and lambo also have them. This is because they parity against the Porsche GT3.
Also, Bowe only had his m3GTR for 10 days before the race. That is nowhere near enough time to set up a car for a 24hr race. Also it runs a near stock m5 engine instead of the 4L race engine.
Paul Stokell's Lambo was actually a group 2 spec car which is much slower.
The Ferrari 360GT was doing quite well especially in the wet when they did a 2:15.?!!!! But the thrashing eventually killed it.
So the Monaro team basically had a much better preparation than any other team and that is what won it for them in the end.
If anybody wants to see a more even race next year, go over to the www.procar.com.au and tell Ross Palmer. He is the head of PROCAR and is always on the forums. I think we need to let the European GT class cars in, not just the N-GT and hopefully get some Japanese GT500 cars as well. Currently the GT300 cars are allowed but the race seems to fall on their final round.
sorry for the long post
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 11:28
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| Lambolica wrote on Thu, 27 November 2003 14:55 |
My point exactly the package has proven itself two years running over the porsches and ferarri's. the specs are comparable to those of a supercar. So why wouldn't it be a supercar? (if produced) It was scraped because Holden/HSV/HRT beleived that the 50 cars they were going to produce were to be used as race cars and only a small proportion were going to be road registered. but a survrey of the 50 people found that they would nearly all be road registered. Holden scraped the idea for *safty* reasons and the cost blow out (which they were concidering accepting the loss for promotional reasons).
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The Monaro that won the Bathurst 24 hour race is not the same car that HRT built and planned to sell.
Two completely different 427 Monaros were announced at the same time!
The Bathurst Monaro is built by Garry Rogers Motorsport under contract to GMH. It has independent rear suspension, strut front suspension, Holinger sequential gearbox and probably a purpose built chassis by Dencar, who supply body shells for V8 Supercar.
The Bathurst Monaro has a pure race motor that can never be used in a road car, the only similarity this motor has to a Gen 3 LS1 is parts of the block. The rest of the car is pure race car and could never be licensed.
The HRT 427 was a concept car designed to be licensed for the road.
It was scrapped and no cars were ever sold.
The HRT 427 had live rear axle, double wishbone front suspension, a Tremec gearbox and a bored and stroked Gen3 LS1.
Every other car raced in the Bathurst 24 hour can be bought by anyone if you have the cubic $$$$ required.
The initial agreement to allow the Monaro to race was that GRM had to be able to supply the same spec Monaro to customers.
It appears this agreement has been forgotten about!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 12:04
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well actually the similarities batween the concept and race car are high in numbers.
remember i said concept
brakes were only marginally smaller
all alloy front susp {was to be "toned down" for legal vers.}
same wheels {except 5 stud}
same based engine {less powerful and less the 8 T/B's  }
the only similarity in the drivetrain dept
obviously identical body {higher tho}
basically just tone it down slightly for legality {no naughty's going on here  }
i'd have loved to see them be sold, maybe we'll have to wait a few years and they'll re think it
i'd like to see the redbook value for one of those in 20 years 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 427 Coupe = Supercar?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 12:05
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oh and they did say that "A" class was supposed to be a "dream class", where the cars are supposed to be race only/cream your pants models
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