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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sat, 29 November 2003 01:51
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hey guys
im in a bit of a dilemma
the exhaust on my car is fucking insanely loud on acceleration.
cruising speed in 4th under 3500 revs is an okay volume but if i give it some and its all *baaahhhaahhhhaaahhhhhhaahhhhhhhhh*
SO i took it to the engineering joint to get the compliance done
they heard it and said its too loud but they can put another muffler in it
is this a good idea to run 2 pre-mufflers/resonators on it? it sounds awesome as it is, but its too fucking loud and too "boomy" (ie. i set of a car alarm at 4500rpm in 2nd.. not good)
also, whats the difference between a resonator and a pre-muffler? are they the same thing?
im after a nice crisp race tone, not a boomy ricey "look at me" sound
any suggestions?
(heres a diagram of my current setup, keep in mind im getting some extractors and a hi-flow cat very soon)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sat, 29 November 2003 09:09
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get them to chuck in another hot dog and you'll be sweet.
i have high flow cat, one hot dog and straight through rear muff, i wouldn't call it really loud but it aint quite.
passed rta and all
is your pipe diameter 2"
if its any bigger than that o think you will get droneyeeeeeeyyness.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sat, 29 November 2003 13:23
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yeah its 2"
and they are going to put a hotdog in up the front and ive currently got NO cat at all
so im getting a hiflow cat and another resonator and i should be ok
anyone else post their setup/experiences ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sat, 29 November 2003 14:50
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my trueno has an Apexi exhaust from front to back.
that includes extractors, a cat, a resonator, and a cannon muffler, and it was still too loud to pass.
all i did was make up a baffle plate to stick between 2 flanges near the back. basically, it's a steel plate, the same shape as a flange gasket, with 2 half inch holes drilled into it, instead of a 2 inch hole....
blocks up your exhaust, kills flow, and wont let my engine rev past 6500rpm, but it's quiet enough to pass, and then you pull it back out 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 09:04
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anyone else?
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 09:25
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if you're worried about noise, use a silencer or dont use a cannon style muffler.
i was told by my exhaust shop that i didn't need a cat because it was an old car? but i got one anyway to be safe.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 09:49
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it came with the car man... im not about to shell out 600 for a new muffler when i can get another resonator and a hiflow cat fo the same and have better sounding results
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Location:
Randwick Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 10:02
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no they dont require cats
but cats do restrict noise 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 10:34
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in australia, it depends on which state you live in as to whether your ae86 needs a cat or not.
all ae86's in japan have them. that's because they all take unleaded fuel. japan has been using unleaded since the late 70's. we didn't even see it until the mid 80's, and even then it was hard to find...
it is true that cats make for a quieter note, but realise that if you do run a cat, and you have to go for inspection, they may pick up the fact that your car has a large opening fuel
filler neck, AND a cat converter...
the easiest way to get out of it is to run the exhaust how you want it, and then for the inspection use a silencer of some sort, whether it's a flange plate like mine, or a $50 silencer you can stick in the back of the muffler, which they will probably pick up on... 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 11:50
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| Quote: |
it is true that cats make for a quieter note, but realise that if you do run a cat, and you have to go for inspection, they may pick up the fact that your car has a large opening fuel
filler neck, AND a cat converter...
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whats the problem with running a cat AND a large fuel filler neck?
isnt that 2 GOOD things? like i did the right thing twice?
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 11:54
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Dude i run
Tuned length extractors
2" pipe
3" cat
One resonator (middle of car)
a muffler (rear of car)
3" tip
It is not a bad sound and once its revving it realy screams.
hasnt got a farty sound.
If anyone on megacruise II heard my car they can vouch for me (i hope)
A cat will change the sound of the car HEAPS!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 12:01
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ahh thats what ill be runnin but with an extra resonator
and sweet!!!!!
on a 4A-GE?
does it scream nice???
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 14:59
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| ae86drift wrote on Sun, 30 November 2003 22:50 |
| Quote: |
it is true that cats make for a quieter note, but realise that if you do run a cat, and you have to go for inspection, they may pick up the fact that your car has a large opening fuel
filler neck, AND a cat converter...
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whats the problem with running a cat AND a large fuel filler neck?
isnt that 2 GOOD things? like i did the right thing twice?
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umm, cat is for UNleaded. if you run it with leaded fuel, you will poison it and it will be next to useless....
large filler neck is for LEADED fuel. if you have a cat and a large filler neck, chances are they will pick you up on it, which is bad.
the small filler neck is to prevent you accidentally putting leaded fuel into an unleaded car..
fwiw, leaded fuel does not contain lead anymore, but it does contain other heavy metals like manganese, so it still poisons oxygen sensors and cat converters....
Cya, Stewart
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 20:14
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just to cl;arify, if your car is to be legal with a cat it will require a small filler next by legistlation to pass ADR's so that ULP ONLY is abl to be fitted into the tank hole.
now time for a thread hijack sorta, I have a similar problem. My exhaust is 2 inches i think, has a box muffler a pre muffler and a long set of extractors.
my prob is it's loud when revving high (i dont mind the loudness as much, is whisper quiet when idling) but it sounds like shit. I was thinking about changing my exhaust too and ditching my muffler (tho i dont want a stright through cannon or some bling muffler)
so what can anyone reccomend?
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Location:
was adelaide now newcastle
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 23:11
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if it is legal to do so, dont run a cat, if you want to quieten the car down a smaller muffler will do the job for half the price, plus after time cats tend to clog up, which in the case of my fiances 180sx absolutely killed the power, try to look for an insert for your cannon muffler, this will quieten it down nicely (it will however sound shit!) if the silencer can be bolted in (as most are) then it is technically a part of the exhaust, and will be legal (if the car is quiet enough), i have one on my gze 86 and it reduces power a bit though, i guess your best option would be to put a second muffler in, if you are willing to get a new cat then the same money will get a nice muffler.
matty.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sun, 30 November 2003 23:21
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here is your problem - that cannon style muffler. They are barely a muffler at all, just a big fat chamber, and are no.1 at making overly loud exhausts.
Remove it, replace with slightly more restrictive tri-flow or similar sports muffler - noise will be dramatically reduced, and performance negligably effected. There will also be less shiny hoo-ha hanging off the back of your car.
Me i have aa tri-flow redback muffler, with a 1.5" or 2" tip. Its quiet enough. I also have no cat.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Mon, 01 December 2003 19:01
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im running a std 4age exhaust manifold a 2 1/2 inch pipe all the way to a straight flow muffler with a 3 inch tip and i have 2 resonators in between. It sounds really muffled and i passed the pits with that. Before that i had only 1 resonator and it was loud like hell.
just my 2cents. Im going to remove my extra resonator cause ive felt a noticable amount power loss at high rpm. Anyways lots would say that 2 1/2 inch is prob too big for an N/A 1600 but i love it! haha....
personally i would forget about the highflow cat, cause the car's 20yrs old and you dont need one (not here in WA anyway)
remember they dont check whether the engine needs it (a cat). As long as the age of your car is within the 'no cat' region u'll pass!
good luck anyway!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Mon, 01 December 2003 23:55
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I agree with THE WITZL.. Its the cannon muffler. I had the same problem with my 4AGE ae86, was only a 2 inch system, with one pre muffler and a cannon muffler. It was extremely loud at mid/high revs.. My exhaust guy couldn't believe it . We messed around for a bit putting different pre mufflers/hotdogs on but to no real avail  . Then what we did was get a bit of 2 1/4" pipe and shove that into the cannon muffler  (so the tip was basically 2 1/4 inch instead of the 4"), shut the thing right up. So i changed to a different muffler (high flow chambered).. sounds heaps more bearable, and still has that sweet twinky noise
And didn't notice any decrease in performance.
My 2 cents worth
Cheers
Gaz
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Tue, 02 December 2003 20:39
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agreed. cannon muffler
i had a big chrome POS on my lancer and it did the same. shithouse
my celica with 4age has a hotdog mid way (no cat required - LPG) and a rear resonator and just sounds nice. pipe is 2.25"
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Tue, 02 December 2003 23:37
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anyone care to chime in with my issue?
i dont have a cannon, it appears to be a tri flow box of some sort, and my exhausts sounds really shit.
im after something better sounding at least! what can i change in my system to give me a nicer note
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 04:48
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All I can recommend is you go to Australia's Best and avoid Liverpool Exhaust at all costs.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Randwick Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 08:49
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are u going to replace your muffler that you have on now ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 10:04
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YES! hell yes! fucking cannon...
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Location:
Randwick Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 10:16
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arg nothing wrong with cannons, I will be fitting a straight through motorbike muffler to my sprinter with 2 inch mandrel bent piping from the headers with no cat, or resonators what so ever, should sound good 
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 10:26
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have you taken the time to read this entire discussion?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 10:37
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i have
any mufflers for under $500?
just the main rear muffler?
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Location:
sunshine coast
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 11:59
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if u have the room where your resonator(pre muffler)is i would suggest replacing that with a 8by4 resonator.a good 1 to use is what is know as 2615S,which is a strait through version of a V8 holden muffler.when ever i build a 2" sports system with a cannon type muffler i find that they give a nice note without being overly offensive.there are 2 different forms of this muffler,1 being a perforated inner tube usually a Lukey made,2 being a spiral louvre type design made by Redback,depending on how much noise you want to get rid of depends on the way u have the louvres.ther is so many different opinions on the right way of flow with spiral louvres that i usually do dumy runs by temporarily mount the muffler and try both ways to achieve the desired affect.never had any1 complain bout my work.find a good muffler shop that will help u out.
Jaze
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
sunshine coast
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 14:14
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unknown how much it would cost in SYD,but pretty sure that it should retail around $80-110,depending on the shop maybe $20-50 for fitting only a guestamation.here in QLD i would fit for $95.
unfortunately i know that prices are over inflated in large cities like SYD,BRIS&MELB.if i knew someone there i would recommend them-sorry.
good luck
Jaze
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 14:47
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Thought I'd chime in with my exhaust observations too!
On my turboed Celica I run a mandrel bent 3" system without a resonator or cat, and a Dynomax 3" Straight Through Stainless Steel Muffler. With the turbo helping to keep the exhaust note down, I still find it a bit droney, my remedy in this situation would be to use an identical 2.5" system next time.
I have also had a full 2" system on a Sprinter. Motor was only a 4AC, however I ran the "header like" 3A interference style exhaust manifold with it. The system had no resonators or cats, and only one 2" Lukey Offset Muffler at the rear. While the exhaust was more raspy than a standard Sprinter, it was still fine on the sound level front, to the extent that the cop following me off a set of lights never even thought about pulling me over for the exhaust note. I actually want to sell this system, it's only downfall - it has no "bling bling" chrome or polishing, unless you want to add it (system is around four months old and has only done 400Kms).
I have also used the same style of offset muffler on my V8's, the only difference being the degree of pipe offset (the units on my V8, could still pass a small amount of clear daylight through the two opposing sides of the muffler, and were packed with fibreglass). The resulting sound from a twin 2.25" system each with only one muffler, was more trumpety than I had imagined, but also has drawn no action from the law.
My advice is to look at the Lukey Performance range of mufflers for naturally aspirated engines, and the Dynomax range for forced induction mills, I have had excellent results with both brands in the two applications. And no, neither muffler will cost $600 as you feared earlier in the thread, the lukey's are around $200ish depending on model and style, and the Dynomax was also only $200 approximately three years ago.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 15:12
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so clint
u think i get this muffler as shown above an ill be set?
how much is your setup? or just the muffler?
what model is it? i dont need/want bling
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 15:22
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Hey Garth, you doing tech support again tonight?
If you mean the muffler in your link, yes, something like that suited to your sprinter is the go! I'll send you some info and pictures to your digital funk email in a minute of my setup.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 15:26
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haha i do every night clint
but i finished work at 12
im at home now
so u rekon i replace my resonator with that muffler and keep the cannon?
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Wed, 03 December 2003 21:04
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I've noticed a lot of people on this thread are running 2" systems (press? mandrel?) with their 4AGE's, while I'd been previously led to believe that a 2" was a little too small and a 2.25 is more suitable? Or maybe a 2" mandrel or a 2.25" press? Anyone like to shed some light on this?
I'm getting a small port 4AGE in my Corolla, will need to get an exhaust system put on it sometime... It's a club car so I'd be more inclined to go with the option that gives me more power, but at the same time it's also a daily driver so it can't be overly loud...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 06:13
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that's what i notice too, in most US site about 4AGE seem to indicate that 2.25" is the optimum size....
But here is 2"....
why the diff?
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 06:19
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i have 2.25" piping and that seems to be too big.. but then i guess it depends on the application as i have a standard 4age.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 06:25
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At the moment mine is 2.5" in a std engine.
Did not notice any low end torque lose?....maybe i'm insensitive
Only problem it's too loud from 5000-7500 rpm
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 06:32
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i got the exhaust done with the motor so i wouldn't know.. but there is no bottom end torque there. in fact, if the revs are under 6000, it goes like a 4ac.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 06:44
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Shindeokure: and yours is a press bent system? Hmm... Maybe I should go with a 2"? No idea...
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 07:22
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2.25 mandrel, 4-1 extractors, high flow cat, fat resonator, straight through muffler.. still loud as f#*k & doesnt go.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 08:20
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| SPRINTAH! wrote on Sat, 29 November 2003 20:09 |
get them to chuck in another hot dog and you'll be sweet.
i have high flow cat, one hot dog and straight through rear muff, i wouldn't call it really loud but it aint quite.
passed rta and all
is your pipe diameter 2"
if its any bigger than that o think you will get droneyeeeeeeyyness.
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just found out its a 3" pipe
time to rip it ALL out
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 12:57
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shindeokure: ah okay... well I was planning on getting a 2.25 press bent system (people seem to tell me that mandrel bend in NA and smaller sizes isn't worth the extra money?) and a tri-flow muffler or something, maybe a resonator or two between - so should have a fair bit more backpressure than your system? Maybe.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 13:13
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[quote title=ae86drift wrote on Thu, 04 December 2003 16:20just found out its a 3" pipe
time to rip it ALL out [/quote]
Yep it's start all over again time, sorry Garth. A naturally aspirated 1600 is never going to be kept anywhere within legal range with a 3" system on it.
On another note, in an email earlier in the day to Garth, I made note that one of the fastest street registered street cars here in Perth only runs with a 2" system, that comprises of only one muffler at the back of the car. This car is not overly loud or obnoxious sounding, however I will admit, due to it's development, it now gets trailered everywhere! Even when competing in motorkhanas or track days, it is well within acceptable sound levels.
So Garth, when are we going to see the For Sale ad reading "Maximum Blingage Canon Muffler for sale!"?
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Location:
sunshine coast
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Thu, 04 December 2003 13:15
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hello ae86drift.
im sure that that muffler will do the job.what type of cannon are you running???please dont tell me its a 3A racing,personally i would try to use the louvred one,but thats just my opinion.i have found with most 4 cyl cars it is usually better to have a combination of a larger pipe from extractors/e-pipe to the 1st muffler/converter then your system the next size down.eg 4AGE 2 1/4 fromext/e-pipe then 2" system .
Jaze
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Fri, 05 December 2003 00:51
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update for those who want to know
the workshop said there was not enough room to fit another resonator on the pipe.
so the cannon has been axed and replaced with a "turbo style" muffler for $130
apparently this will quiet down the exhaust dramatically. good. if it sounds shit (im assuming it will). i will just have to wait until i can afford a new car back system. probably a fujitsubo
on a side note. whats the max allowed db reading for an exhaust in nsw/aus?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Fri, 05 December 2003 01:26
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I think that gone to a national code of 94/96(?)decibels 1 metre from the exhaust exit?
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Location:
sunshine coast
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 4AGE Exhaust Technicalities
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Sat, 06 December 2003 13:47
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noise regulation states that cars made after 1980 must be 90 decibels,used to be cars made after1986.cars pre 80's can go to 96Db.Hope that helps.must also be measured 1 meter from outlet on 30 or 45 degree angle,not sure pretty certain its 30 deg.
Jaze
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