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Location: Illawarra
Registered: May 2002
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Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 15:57
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Alot of people compare the 20V to the honda vtec,
The 20v is older than the VTEC, but produces about the same power output,
In modified form, which of these engines is better in ratio of bang for your buck,
I believe that the 20V block isn't as strong as say the 4AGE or Z, but what of the VTEC, i have searched google for info, but nothing really saying how strong the block is.
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I supported Toymods
Location: sydney.au
Registered: August 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Tue, 02 December 2003 08:38

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b16a would be $$$ to mod i would imagine
vtec ... muhhhhh
not my style
plus 20 valves... TWENTY VALVES!! wooott
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Location: Sydney
Registered: June 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Tue, 02 December 2003 13:35

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i htink the vtec is a more expensive purchase than the 20v. vtec engines are pretty frail too, probably on the same level as a 20v. i have no proof of this but its what i derive and assume.
i think because the vtec motor has been developed and evolved through 3 generations it might be a fraction better than the 20v. and there are alot of aftermarket performance bits for the b16a it might have a higher potential to modify. but i would prefer the 20v, probably because of vtec being associated with riceboy mentality
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I supported Toymods Toymods Club Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: April 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Sat, 06 December 2003 10:51

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Didn't the b16a come out in the early 90's in the civic sir and crx sir? So wouldn't be a little older than the 20v?
Also vtecs can variate their lift as well as timing in which the 20v can't.
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Location: Melbourne
Registered: August 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Sat, 06 December 2003 16:17

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Well yeah the B16A did come out in the early 90's but it has been refined over the years...
it's a very technologically advanced engine compared to the 20v... they put out 160bhp.. pretty damn good for a 1.6 litre..
peace
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Location: Sydney, OZ
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Mon, 08 December 2003 03:53

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Modded Vtec's so far are leaving any of the 20V's for dead in IP racing ATM. Though a Good 3SGE Beams has the Potential to dwarf any of the equal capacity Vtec's ie Stroked B18A, H22A..
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: April 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Tue, 09 December 2003 09:27

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Johnny wrote on Mon, 08 December 2003 14:23 | Modded Vtec's so far are leaving any of the 20V's for dead in IP racing ATM. Though a Good 3SGE Beams has the Potential to dwarf any of the equal capacity Vtec's ie Stroked B18A, H22A..
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hm... would that even include the s2000 engine? the k20c(?)
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Location: Sydney, OZ
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Wed, 10 December 2003 05:59

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oops forgot that one, but I think in factory form they had similar power outputs... Still reakon Honda may have the advantage...
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Location: Melbourne
Registered: July 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Fri, 12 December 2003 00:25

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Vtec sounds unbelievable, but quad throttles, mmm soo nice. B16A was released in the JDM EF civic & CRX. the EG civic had the B16A2 which was a revised version of the b16a. and the EK civic had the B16A3 .. Type R EK civic had the B16B engine..
I agree with whats been said sofar, the honda engine is alot more expensive to modify, but i do believe from my experience that it is more rewarding than the 20V..
As for the 'frail' thing, i totally disagree. I've driven quite a few VTEC civics/integras and have never experience anything 'frail'. Infact, i've never had a VTEC engine fail on me.
VVTi & VTEC are actually two different kettle of fish . VTEC is electronically controlled and when its engaged, changes the entire cam profile.. Whereas VVTI is hydraulic controlled and only alters the timing of the current inlet cam ...
Here is a better explanation :
Quote: | Honda was the first to offer what it called VTEC in its Acura-badged performance models like the Integra GS-R and NSX (it has since worked its way into the Prelude and even the lowly Civic). VTEC stands for Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control. It basically uses two sets of camshaft profiles-one for low and mid-range rpm and one for high rpm operation. An electronic switch shifts between the two profiles at a specific rpm to increase peak horsepower and improve torque. As a VTEC driver, you can both hear and feel the change when the VTEC "kicks in" at higher rpm levels to improve performance. While this system does not offer continuously variable valve timing, it can make the most of high rpm operation while still providing solid driveability at lower rpm levels. Honda is already working on a three-step VTEC system that will further improve performance and efficiency across the engine rpm range.
Toyota saw the success Honda was having with VTEC (from both a functional and marketing standpoint) but decided to go a different route. Instead of the on/off system that VTEC employs, Toyota decided it wanted a continuously variable system that would maximize valve timing throughout the rpm range. Dubbed VVTi for Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (Is this a dig at Honda, suggesting their system isn't intelligent?), Toyota uses a hydraulic rather than mechanical system to alter the intake cam's phasing. The main difference from VTEC is that VVTi maintains the same cam profile and alters only when the valves open and close in relation to engine speed. Also, this system works only on the intake valve while VTEC has two settings for the intake and the exhaust valves, which makes for a more dramatic gain in peak power than VVTi can claim.
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I believe the B16 engine would be the better engine to modify for sure.. Anyone seen this engine in RWD form?
Just my 2c
Cheers
Gaz
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Location: Adelaide
Registered: April 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Sat, 13 December 2003 07:21

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mrsoopra wrote on Fri, 12 December 2003 10:55 |
I believe the B16 engine would be the better engine to modify for sure.. Anyone seen this engine in RWD form?
Gaz
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It would be interesting to see the b16 in rwd and what diff they deside to use since the b16 spins the wrong way.
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Location: Sydney, OZ
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Sun, 14 December 2003 08:29

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Quote: | Whereas VVTI is hydraulic controlled and only alters the timing of the current inlet cam ...
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sorry Beams system Alters Both inlet and exhaust.
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Location: Blue mtns
Registered: November 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Wed, 17 December 2003 07:06

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in stock form i'd go with the b16a, as if you check the specs with the 20v, even though the 20v has an extra 2 kilowatts or something, the b16a has more torque. so stock, in a cars weighing roughly the same, the b16 would come out on top, by just a little though...
if you were intending on modding it, i'd probably say the b16 again. there just seems more support for it than the 20v.
but fuck it, get the 20v, those quad throttles... plus, can't beat at 86 with a 20v!!
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Location: melbourne
Registered: September 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Wed, 17 December 2003 08:40

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the b16a a weak block and is prone to cracking under boost, but you can buy just about anything off the shelf from quad throttles to sleeve jackets which reinforce the block for turbo applications.
personally, i've driven both in stock form and the honda engine shits all over the 4age.. thats my 2cents.
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Location: sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Wed, 17 December 2003 11:03

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a 20v with aftermarket ecu and 4 ram tubes sound so sweet
just like the good old webers 10 yrs ago
b16as have probs with the rockers thou
had a shitfight with one once
fitted new cams and the rockers got noisy when not in vtec
also had to fix a b16a with a prob that when it hit vtec it would sound better but didnt go much faster
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Location: Sunbury, VIC
Registered: November 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Thu, 04 March 2004 15:22

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Lucid wrote on Thu, 04 December 2003 21:51 | B16A in a corolla would own a 20v 4age in a corolla.
Just my opinion - I think they're a much better engine. (and by no means frail)
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I wonder what a B16A would be like in an AE82 Corolla CSX? 
What engine is in them anyway? (I dont have one yet, but i will soon, (after I look at it properly )
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Location: South Australia
Registered: July 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Thu, 04 March 2004 23:30

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Just my 2 cents, I think the B16A kicks a fair bit of arse, as does the 4a-ge 20v. As for the B16A being frail? Not too sure about that one...I hear stories on both sides, 4A-GEs cracking blocks, B16A cracking blocks. Afaik it's all bullshit. Get some cast iron cylinder sleeves if you are paranoid...
VTEC sounds cool...so I'd go with the B16A - cause sounding cool is what it's all about...
Right?
Hello?
In actuality I'd probably go with either!
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Location: Melbourne
Registered: July 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Thu, 11 March 2004 01:18

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Any engine that is a 1.6 and in standard N/A form has 165hp earns my damn respect. Thumbs up to both engines I say.
Gaz
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Location: Melbourne
Registered: April 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Thu, 11 March 2004 05:33

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i raced a 94 civic jap spec, which was vtir or type r, i forget which it was, was a mates car, 5spd and all
i beat it in my 4age ae86 by 2 car lengths no problems, but i spose my 4age an't stock either... and an't properly tuned yet thou either
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Location: Melbourne
Registered: July 2002
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Thu, 11 March 2004 05:47

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Are you sure it was a B16A engine? because no B16A EG Civics were released here. We only had the D15B & D16A (which is basically a B16A without VTEC and lower compression).
VTEC aint anything flash on the street.. The engines are nothing to shine about when the are off VTEC (below 5500rpm +/-). Off VTEC they just make screw all power. Thats why VTEC cars cain on the track. If the driver is good with VTEC, they should be able to launch on VTEC and do quite well.
If it was a VTEC civic, you have a nice quick 4AGE what mods have you done??
Gaz
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Location: Melbourne
Registered: April 2003
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Re: Comparison: B16A vs 20V - limits anyone ?
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Fri, 12 March 2004 00:53
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it was a JDM spec civic, 94, little hatch back one, it was a B16, as the guy was raving on about it
my 4age has got a bit of work done to it,
cams, compression, injectors, more compression, computer chiped, some nice bottom end work... still need some cam gears to really get it moving in the mid range... I'll take it to calder in a few weeeks to see what the bitch runs .....
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