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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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 how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Mon, 08 December 2003 01:31
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i was just wondering how much to port polish adn shave my head and maybe to get custom headers also how much will this cost and where would be a place to go to get it done.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Mon, 08 December 2003 01:55
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Have you thought that through? Do you really want to go to a higher compression ratio on a 20V? Are you planning on running octane booster all the time?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Mon, 08 December 2003 02:17
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well i dont wanna turbo it for a while so i wanna get more power by keeping NA tunning it so that means higher compression why what would you suggest to get more power with out turbo and for a resonable price
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Mon, 08 December 2003 03:39
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Are you planning on running octane booster all the time?
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You can dial the cams back to run PULP. We run over 12:1 in the race engine we prep and they all run on PULP...
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i was just wondering how much to port polish adn shave my head and maybe to get custom headers also how much will this cost and where would be a place to go to get it done.
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Mark Yager (sorry don't have Number) or CB Performance @ Seven hills- Ph 9674 6989. Custom Headers, Redline Motorsport's-> Dave 9832 1650 (works out of Premier's W'shop)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Mon, 08 December 2003 23:50
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20v's are pretty much as good as they are gona get mechanically when they leave the factory. Get and aftermarket computer (no more afm if u have a silver top), get the ports cleaned up, leave the compression alone.... leave the standard extractors (aftermarket one's aren't gona do squat for what u will pay), get a decent exhaust, if u feel the need to run a pod set up make sure it's not sucking in hot air..... start stripping your car's interior, get rid of any car stereo gear you have 
you'll have to start selling vital organs on the black market if you really wana start working it too much
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Tue, 09 December 2003 03:13
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20v's are pretty much as good as they are gona get mechanically when they leave the factory. Get and aftermarket computer (no more afm if u have a silver top), get the ports cleaned up, leave the compression alone.... leave the standard extractors (aftermarket one's aren't gona do squat for what u will pay), get a decent exhaust, if u feel the need to run a pod set up make sure it's not sucking in hot air..... start stripping your car's interior, get rid of any car stereo gear you have
you'll have to start selling vital organs on the black market if you really wana start working it too much
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$3000 gives you a complete ready to race engine... Head work will cost anywhere from $600-1500 pending on what you want. $800 for proper custom race headers, tuned to your engine... And all proven to make power...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Tue, 09 December 2003 04:17
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does he want a race engine?
how much reliability and driveability are you willing to sacrifice?
standard 4age extractors have been proven to be good enough up to 200 hp
20v exhaust manifold craps on the 4age one
not many 20v's out there are making 200hp on the street (keep in mind as well the 160hp from the factory is only claimed and very iffy at that)
This is a daily driven car not a race car from what i understand.
$5000 can buy you a gze conversion with pulley kit, front mount, and the lsd box. If you don't want forced induction right now but you have a feeling you will in the future plan your current mods to accommodate this.
Speak to 10sec_rx7 about some tuning, he seems to be getting around the 92kw at the wheels mark, totally street driveable.
An aftermarket computer will get rid of the AFM, one of the biggest restrictions for the standard silver top.
Think about where you want to go with this engine and car before you start modifying it.
have a read http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 05:55
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how much reliability and driveability are you willing to sacrifice?
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None
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standard 4age extractors have been proven to be good enough up to 200 hp
20v exhaust manifold craps on the 4age one
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Proven for 200Hp?? any exhaust can do that! they aren't like a turbo...a good exhaust enhances the power, eg Standard 20V 80hp, when we change the exhaust, we made 100Hp, this engine with a stocker bottom with a Yager head, very mild cams 250 deg, well? 120Hp... but with 120Hp at the wheels in an EP91 non-turbo, mate thats heaps... Perfectly legal, perfectly reliable. The $3000 I'm spending is cause I thrash the crap out of mine in the bush and it's very easy to 'slip up'.This will be on the upper end in scale of what can be done, especiallly when competing ARC F16, you have to look for Hp hence cost. Again rally car's Have to be register and have to be road legal, and I can drive it through Peak Hour M4 traffic without and have done so in current form.... The 7AFE I use currently For NSWRC makes 75kw at the wheels and as much torque as a WRX as still uses the Standard manifolds. I'm Postive that the 20V will eat this.
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92kw at the wheels mark, totally street driveable
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How does and n/a 4AGE 160Hp(approx 120kw) at the wheels, total street driveable and it's a 16V. We've all Read Bills Webpage, and It's got even the best of us scratching our heads as Nothing Really special's be done.. Just headwork, TRD shim unders, GZE coils, MTX8 and 20V quads and 260 cams, standard bottom balanced. But from this Experience I will agree with Bill that a good 16V will produce more power than a 20V after tuning that thing....
Anyway, to answer the question of this thread....
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Head work will cost anywhere from $600-1500 pending on what you want. $800 for proper custom race headers, tuned to your engine... And all proven to make power...
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Location:
Richmond NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 11:33
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so does that mean my blacktop is the way it will be unless i turbo i got a CAI pod filter going and 2 inch all the way through is there anything eles i can do to get more power out of it. what power is it produceing i thought about 130kw.
And this engine craps all over my other engine poor little 7AFE it just dont rev like this one and when the VVt kicks in i love it hehehe
cheers matt
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Richmond NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 11:53
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well dam time for a new exhuast.
i heard that the blacktops a stronger and better to turbo. but then i used to think the had lighter internals i hate this everyone always has a diffrent opion.
anyone eles and is there any way to improve power of no
cheers matt
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 11:57
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sit a blacktop rod next to a silvertop rod and decide which one's stronger... 100kw 16V rods are the same as the smallport GZE rods.
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Location:
Richmond NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 11:59
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well just tell me to much effort does a blacktop need more to turbo???
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 12:19
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fit GZE rods and pistons, fit larger injectors, fit custom inlet plenum to the quads (so it doesn't blow the seal on the stock box when the boost hits), modify sump for oil return, fit good aftermarket ECU, be very careful with your timing if you are retaining the VVT, fit custom piping and intercooler, think about sourcing an LSD gearbox (AE101 E58 with optional LSD would be suitable), etc etc etc etc etc
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 21:41
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ehh this has gone from being a simple port and polish to a race engine. I agree there is a lot to be had from a worked 16v, totally agree. The point i was trying to make was for what he wanted going all out on a 20v may not be the best option. I'm assuming you are talking about the ep91 of david loftus? yeah i've heard about that before, it's an amazing car, a friend actually got some stuff off of him for his own ep71 black top (now that thing screams  ). I know about the rules and regulations with rally cars. The reason yourself and david chose to keep on the NA path had more to do with class restrictions than cost didn't it?
last thing, not trying to seem like a smart ass here but i spoke of a 20v with 92kw at the wheels, all it had was microtech and a 2 1/4 exhuast. You spoke of: tuned length headers, full exhaust, yager head,and 250o cams produced 120hp at the wheels.
120hp as opposed to 92kw... once you do the math there, it's pretty much the same power figures...
[Updated on: Wed, 10 December 2003 22:06]
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Wed, 10 December 2003 23:42
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Standard compression is already high enough. Maybe head job, cams, computer, decent exhaust, dont change headers you wont need to as someone already explained. Adjustable cam gears and get the fukin thing tuned off its tits, by somebody who knows what there doing.
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Thu, 11 December 2003 02:11
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simple port and polish to a race engine
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no, i was giving examples of costs
Yes, and he is a very good friend of mine and has a lot of input in my engine developments.
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class restrictions than cost didn't it?
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certainly in my case, though his (loftus) new/last (blew it up) has more potenial and freedoms.
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last thing, not trying to seem like a smart ass here but i spoke of a 20v with 92kw at the wheels
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Cool, we're only having a discussion, so no offence taken by each side here... but, I really don't believe in comparing figures given by different dynos, it's like comparing Oranges and apples because each dyno operator likes to run different settings. ie I can make any 20V read 92kw by changing value in the dyno's settings.... what I'm saying is there was a considerable increase when we change his exhaust system (20Hp->15kw), while using a completely standard engine, Bar the motec he runs, ie comparing before (88hp) to after (100hp) and final (120Hp). What did the 20V put out before he had 92Kw with exhaust changes, etc? That's the bit we're missing.
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sit a blacktop rod next to a silvertop rod and decide which one's stronger...
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Can tell you straight away, Silvertop, also the the head design is much better. I started with a Black, but when I came to the crunch, I just freshened it up and put it i my Miss' car. Check out Bill's page as this info is already there.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Thu, 11 December 2003 02:38
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yeah it's cool man i'm enjoying getting to share info. I agree with the dyno thing, it's crazy that there is such a variation between readings. Not sure on the exact power output when it was standard, you'll have to ask dale that one. Most of the 20v's i've seen are producing low to mid 80's in the KW department with nothing more than a simple exhaust. The example your gave seemed to have some pretty heaving power loss through the drive train (somewhere in the vicinity of 45%).. either that or the dyno is giving very low power figures compared to others.
Power can be had from any engine.. the 7AFE you have is definitely an impressive example. There are many different paths to take when it comes to extracting the extra hp and i guess everyone has their own preferences.
As for the comparison between the two 20v's (black and silver) i'd have to agree, the silver top is a fair bit stronger (friend with the ep71 managed to destroy his bottom end very quickly.. now it's getting rebuilt for a turbo set up  ). As for turboing 20v's... i feel that ppl would be better off taking a bottom end already designed for forced induction, but that's only my opinion.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Thu, 11 December 2003 11:45
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| FKN16V wrote on Thu, 11 December 2003 10:12 |
Adjustable cam gears and get the fukin thing tuned off its tits, by somebody who knows what there doing.
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Just out of curiousity would it be possible to get adjustable cams and still retain the vvt?? Does such an intake cam exist??
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Fri, 12 December 2003 00:47
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the 7AFE you have is definitely an impressive example
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certainly when it orignally put out 50hp(37kw) on the same dyno that measured the 100hp(75kw). if I could just sort out a design for those cam drives that will hold (so far all have slipped) I could find a little more power.
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Just out of curiousity would it be possible to get adjustable cams and still retain the vvt?? Does such an intake cam exist??
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Certainly do... The guys I metioned below (Dave redline) convert yours.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: how much to port, polish and shave 20V
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Mon, 14 November 2005 08:15
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Hey dont mean to hijack but i'm interested in getting cams for my rolla.
It has the current engine (1.8L 1ZZ-FE VVTi) and I found some cams for it. Here are the details:
268/260 duration, .374/.347" Lift
I dont know exactly what this means but if someone could put their thoughts up about getting them that would be great.
Does anyone know what kind of gains to expect or if this would affect VVTi?
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Registered:
July 2005
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