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Corvid
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icon3.gif  Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 00:17 Go to next message

Guity or Not Guilty[ 25 vote(s) ]
1.Guilty 2 / 8%
2.Not Guilty 16 / 64%
3.Its a fine Line 7 / 28%

Heres one..
If you go someone off the lights.. and they are more than happy to join in.. If they write themselves off or others, should you be the guilty party for participating?
Not that im condoning such driving styles..
I meant on your own private drag strip with your own RTA Approved Lights Wink

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Rolla Boy
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Why should you be guilty??? If u didn't write your car off or injure someone else, why would it be your fault???
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Lucid
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I had to say that it's a fine line in my eyes.. Even though you personally aren't the one who caused the accident, in a way you could be seen as having encouraged, and hence contributed to the cause of an accident. True enough, each person is responsible for their own car on the raod, but this is not the way the law always looks at it.

What seems a bit silly to me is that if you're happily driving along in Car B, and Car A suddenly pulls out of a side street without looking causing you to swerve and hit Car C, i think (in terms of how the law looks at it) Car A has no responsibility in the situation.. Rolling Eyes Seems like a hell of a double standard to me...

On the other hand, in terms of a street racing situation, BOTH cars ARE breaking the law & if the Police can stick fines on people after the event then that's just a risk you'll have to be willing to accept.
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draven
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well, in a way it could be said you were forcing the other guy to push his car beyond waht he could handle... like tailgating and L plater blaring the horn.

I don't think it should be my responsibility.. I drove my car within the limits I could handle, he drove beyond those limits and payed the price.. callouse as that sounds
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Lucid
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 01:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
draven - Would you stop and render assistance if someone did crash while you were racing them? I mean, it wasn't your fault after all... Rolling Eyes

**Edit** hehheh.. Just read Corvid's post in the War Stories section. That seems a little bit of a finer line to me, since in that case, the race was pretty much over. With Corvid allready in front and having slowed down to the speed limit, it seems to me like the Integra was simply speeding, and no longer racing..?

[Updated on: Mon, 29 July 2002 01:42]

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draven
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hell yes I'd stop and help
just coz it wasn't my fault, doesn't mean that someone's undeserving of help if they crash
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Rolla Boy
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don't put it like that Paul... Then it makes it seem like a very fine line... Encouraging??? It depends... Did u rev your car first or did the other person??? Thats how I would look at it...
I wouldn't go up behind an "L" plater and blast... I think that that is just stupid... I was a learner not that long ago and i got the shits with ppl doing that... I just think it's slack to do it to someone that is trying to learn...
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Lucid
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry draven - didn't intend to make it sound like i was having a go at you (reading back over my post kinda makes it sound like that i guess). I was just thinking back to a thread i read on a another forum a while ago where a few people were actually saying that they wouldn't pull over to help someone if they crashed during a race.. saying shit like both parties should accept the risks and drive at their own consequences etc..

Gave me the shits at the time 'cos i couldn't really see how someone could act in such a way..
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draven
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no way I could do that.
in my mind it's not my fault, but if they crash they're just a person who *needs* help
it could amount to murder (to me) if you watch them crash then keep going and leave them to die
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Lucid
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 02:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm in 100% aggreeance with you on that one mate Nod
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Rolla Boy
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 03:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I agree 100% with that too... I could never leave someone there that is potentialy in need of help or medical attention...
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Some people suck though. When my car aquaplaned into a sign, on a crowded street...no one, not one person stopped to see if I was okay. Even though externally you'd never be able to tell my car had been in an accident (built Toy Tuff Smile) there were people just in front of me and behind me...

[Updated on: Mon, 29 July 2002 09:34]

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lumpy
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Re: Chopping! Mon, 29 July 2002 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
There was a recent case in Adelaide where two cars were dragging on Anzac Hwy, one backed off and the other hit a car turning right at 110 kph. The driver of the car turning was killed, and both drivers were charged (although the car who didn't hit anyone had a lesser charge and pleaded guilty). So I guess if the other party to your drag race crashed, you would also face some charges.

BTW I think both cars were commodores. Always commodores and Anzac Hwy.
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Esteban
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yep, thats exactly why other people wouldnt stop, its called self preservation, and while im not selfish, if i was in that situation (which i wont be, coz i'm a goody two shoes, and ... dont have a running car!) i'm afraid I would scoot.
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MaNGeW
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 02:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hmmm a though one in my opinion.
I would certainly feel a bit guilty since was participating. But as long as i did not cause it.
On the other hand, the other party should be responsible for their own actions because it take two to tango.
Overall a fine line i guess.
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draven
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
so by that rationale... the life of another person is worth less than 3 points off your lisence and a couple of hundred dollars fine... correct?
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Corvid
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Its not about that!..
If i was responsible for someone dying i would be more than willing to hand my keys and my license in to the Police.

Infact.. On epping road a few months back.. (some may have heard about it) i watch a guy in a VL Commodore fly round a corner racing some civic and when i got over the crest he was wrapped around a tree and i found out that he actually died.
I was going to stop but there were like 10 cars allready stopped and sometimes another person on a scene like that can only make it worse.
Ive been driving very slowly after that day actually..
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draven
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hey, I think i saw that crash ... was it up the epping end of epping road?
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Corvid
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yep.. thats where is was.. Up outside those tennis courts.. on the medium strip.. Into a tree.. Lost all the doors.. roof was caved in and touching his head.. blood gushing out.. Very very bad sight..
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draven
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
paid the price for driving beyond his abilities *shakes his head*
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Esteban
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 05:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
draven: I think you were referring to _my_ rationale yeah? well, i will expand so it dosent look so cold... sorry about that ... :/

Story:
I was riding my pushbike ... legally ... down a road when an woman (>30) of asian descent stepped out of the darkness into my path. (I guess she used her ears instead of her eyes and didnt hear me coming huh ...)

Well, I fair and squarely collected her didnt i ...

I went over the front, buckling my front wheel under brakes. But my bike didnt ever hit her! It was my shoulder into her head that did the damage ... and she went down like a sack of spuds, but i caught her fall before she hit thankfully. (I sorta ended up under her somehow) She lapsed in and out for about a minute.

Well .. there were no witnesses, and of course I stopped to help, coz im only human. Dont read into it the fact that i had a buckled wheel Smile I still could have left Smile

Now without admitting fault (dont ever do that hey... innocent until proven guilty, confessing in the heat of the moment is a bad idea until you piece together what actually happened) I offered to help her ... ambulance etc. She had a concussion and I had a sore shoulder and superficial cuts but was otherwise ok.

There were no witnesses of the actual incident, and when they did arrive, of course we had moved to the footpath ... so you can guess everyone's imediate reaction (esp this fucko-bored-outta-his-mind security guard who thought he knew everything) :/

There was still bike paint and a fair bit of my skin on the road however Smile

well ... she wouldnt get in an ambulance ... so I had to get her a cab, after exchanging details

Turns out she dosent speak much english, but her 12 year old daughter does ...

so the next day I get a call, from a 12 year old girl DEMANDING that I pay for:

1. her cab charge (i would have, but the security guard didnt let me leave the scene to get money at this stage ... the reason i was on the bike in the first place ... oh, and it was my birthday)

2. her night in hospital. Get this: the doctor checked her out, said she was fine, didnt need a cat scan etc ... but she didnt have a car, and it was on SOMEONE ELSES BILL so she decided she would live it up and stay at a private hospital overnight!

3. her travel and medical expenses to TAIWAN or something ... because she didnt think the Australian hospitals were of a sufficient standard to diagnose her after the accident!

4. copious amounts of "medicine" (panadol)

5. her lawyer fees regarding a case against me?!?!?!

all this from a twelve year old girl too! I didnt know whether to laugh or what?!?!

this went on for about 2 months.

In the end, after being nothing but polite and helpful, I told this 12 year old girl to fuck off, and changed my phone number.


/Story

it only takes one incident like this to make you think twice about stopping to help ... and if it happens again (on a bicycle at least), whether or not im at fault ... i will probably leg-it the fuck outta there quick smart ... I'm not here to have my goodwill taken advantage of.

Can anyone else think how one could protect themselves from this sort of thing? Without a rich daddy lawyer ... I cant.

On the topic at hand, the risk is you being found liable for damage/injury/death. Now in the case of a motorvehicle you can cover at least some of it with third party insurance Im guessing (ok, so not the death part Smile). But on a bicycle ... :/

I think in the case of doing something illegal like street racing, I would leave the decision to when the event occured, and if there was any hint of liability on my part (unless it is plainly my fault), from my past experience, I would seriously consider legging it.

sorry for the rant Smile
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draven
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I kinda figured you'd had an experience to make you feel like that Smile
If they were in trouble (car on fire, etc) I'd prolly stop, get them the hell out, call an ambulence (sp?), make sure they weren't gonna die, *then* leg it
otherwise park car round a corner, wait till you can hear the ambulence sirens, then bugger off
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M Spec
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raced a friend at a local drag spot in a industrial area. On our second run a cop pulled out behind us and flipped the lights/siren and chased us. He was at least 300 metres behind us and I decided to pull over and take the ticket. Friend does a runner, cops flies past me and goes after him.

I quickly did a u-turn and get the hell out of there. Next day I found out he had crashed on a turn at a intersection close to where we had dragged. Cops caught him but he had switched with his gf in the passenger seat. Turns out he had a suspended licence. The girl friend took the wrap for the driving charges in court. I luckily never got caught or fined.

Point of the story is, both of us knew the dangers before we lined up. We take responsability for our own actions.

He made 3 mistakes;

1. Should'nt have been driving
2. Made a bad choice, racing me
3. Ran from the cops.


[Updated on: Tue, 30 July 2002 18:38]

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Corvid
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Re: Chopping! Tue, 30 July 2002 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I could never do that to my G/F.. im sorry.. but that is Farqed.. It really is.. I would go to jail before i let me Girl take the wrap for anything i had done..
Besides that.. I really dont understand people that run from the police.. I really dont.. It would have to be the stoopidist Country & Western Style thought that could run through anyones head..


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Rolla Boy
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Re: Chopping! Wed, 31 July 2002 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i with you... I'd never to that to my G/F either... That is truely fu#*ed!!! The thing i don't get is if u had a suspended license, why is he even driving let alone racing???
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justcallmefrank
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Re: Chopping! Wed, 31 July 2002 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
There is NO way I could do that to my girlfriend, thats just wrong!
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duckman
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Re: Chopping! Wed, 31 July 2002 01:59 Go to previous message
Thats just rooted
Sif you'd do that to your girl No No No No No No No No No
Running from cops is bad hmmmmk
Although my mums BF does it when he's out riding...but he bloody well owns when he gets on a bike....only ever been caught once and then he was drunk.
But atleast when he does that he's only really putting himself at risk(not really teh cops, as they should be TRAINED PROFESSIONALS and have a persuit "licence"...only certain cops are allowed to chase you and even then its resctricted to what type of "licence" they have)
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