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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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 Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 04:55
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This small article was in the paper today:
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Reckless young drivers were blamed yesterday for adding to the road toll as police struggled to explain how 81 people lost thier lives on Australian roads this holiday period.
It was one of the worst Christmas/New Year tolls in recent years, leaving authorities at a loss on how to better deliver the road safety message. Twenty-four of the deaths were in NSW.
Acting Prime Minister and Transport Minister John Anderson said speed and the recklessness of yound drivers were key factors. "There are still too many young people... who think when they're behind the wheel of a car that they're invincible," he told 2UE
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I am sick to death of young people and speed being automatically blamed for everything. Police struggling to explain the high road toll? It must be young people then because only they would cause accidents.
Forget about 65+ year olds driving down from the North Coast and getting tired and falling asleep. If that was to happen, it must have been some young person speeding that ran into them.
Forget about a middle aged person running into the back of a semi-trailer. Some young person in another car must have been egging them on for them to do something like that.
I could go on and on and on and on. But I wont because the post would take up 2 pages. But I just wish the government would stop automatically blaming speed and young people for everything bad that happens. If they actually did some proper research they would find out what the REAL problems are and start fixing them up.
IMO as long as they keep their one sided approach going (that is speed kills) then the road toll is never going to go down by alot. I reckon that me driving my car along Pennant Hills Rd (70 speed limit on 3 lane road) at say 80k's, is not nearly as dangerous as some old/nervous driver driving along at 60k's.
I have so much more I would love to say, but I will leave the rest to you guys..... 
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 06:32
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Police struggling for an explaination?
HA.
They're still trying to figure out why their "Set and forget" cameras have failed no doubt.
Why havn't the media made a hoo-ha about that? About how much those things have failed to save lives but just make the government richer?
Because the idiot media like to just jump on whatever bandwagon they can that sells the most papers.
This is exactly the same sort of crap as what is happening with the haitians and rockstar games.
Back to topic, they need to move on from their speed kills bullshit as Caledwvech mentioned, and bring in some real driver education. Cameras won't do it. Millions of $ on ads about unrealistic circumstances involving speed wont do it.
Now, I'm not defending the youth either. I've seen it too much in real life that they have no respect or courtesy for other drivers. They need their dumbarsed useless parents to discipline them.
And quite frankly, bringing back a driving age of 21 would see some improvment (reducement) of moronic stunts some of these people pull as well on the roads.
This is only the tip of the iceberg. Someone else can do a rant about soccermums in 4wd's on our suburban streets. And rising insurance premiums those dickheads out there crashing into everything cause us to pay.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 06:47
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| Apollo wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 14:32 |
And quite frankly, bringing back a driving age of 21 would see some improvment (reducement) of moronic stunts some of these people pull as well on the roads.
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As much as i TOTALLY agree with what you have said, (both you and Cal), in doing the above, the public transport systems across Australia would need a MAJOR overhaul to cope with it, and you'll find its cheaper to keep young kids on the road
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 07:04
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Well what about the young kid who was run over by the 4x4 as the parents where trying to clutch start it.
Don't get me wrong it's a real tradgedy that happened but the police still added that as a road toll statistic.
Or any number of crashes that happen while travelling under the posted limit but are classed as speeding accidents cause the cops say that the car was travelling to fast for the conditions.
Still the young poeple are an easy scape goat for the police and pollies and it won't change anytime soon.
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 10:39
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Good thing we have all these speed cameras and radars otherwise imagine the toll without them.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 10:56
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yeah... "adding to the road toll"
Well, hey, now where just putting in our bit to help the team.
I'll just apologise for all youngsters involved. Lets forget about the 25+ year old that came very close to killing me and possibly himself today as he failed to stop at the round about, Instead only stopped when his passenger yelled. I know this coz He still wasn't looking at me and his passenger was quite visably giving him a serve. There was no way i could stop in time, so I just held my breath and hoped I could steer around him. He stopped with his front wheels a good meter over the line. Leaving me around 2-2.5 meters to drive through. Lucky its a small celica.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 10:59
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| Apollo wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 14:32 |
And quite frankly, bringing back a driving age of 21 would see some improvment (reducement) of moronic stunts some of these people pull as well on the roads.
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While thats one way of looking at it, I believe that is a stupid suggestion. I'm not directly attacking you, but I don't think its the age that matters persay, its the level of training and the fact it is easy to get a licence.
Put it this way, based on a driving age of 21, I wont get my licence for 10 months from now, and I will have to wait another couple of years to feel confident enough in my driving abilities to drive a car like the one I'm restoring.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 11:18
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I agree that the +21 idea isn't so good,
Isn't there an 18yr old race car driver? I believe abit of skill is required for that.
And how many under 21's require the use of a car to get to work or school, sure there are fukwits out there but why punish everyone? B4 for you say take public transport i'm 19 and work security at night theres no bus at this time and i'm not paying $50+ to take a taxi across town each night.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 11:23
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/rant on
sheesh im glad its not just me that got irate over this article and issue
the question is of course...what can us as a collective group ( political power) can do about this ?
i can sit here reciting the basics of articles, 4 starters from an automotive performance mag in the UK conducted an "independant study" showing the skills of an elderly sober driver is roughly the same as a teenager with 3 standard drinks, or that of a hot rod mag showing that "official" US studies found lowering the speed limit resulted in more severe injuries and fatalities on the roads and when this was reversed and the discresion was left to the drivers to a certian extent the figures dropped remarkably
another, professional race drivers under the age to legaly obtain a licesne to drive on the roads yet show the skill to race against seasoned professionals
/rant off
tahnkyou for the chance to get this off my chest
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 11:23
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Yeah. A driving age of 21 would reduce road accidents, but having a more rigorous testing system would reduce them much further in my opinion. I think fifteen should be the legal age for L plates, not 16. Having driving training at schools, having mandatory tests with driving instructors (perhaps payed for by the government) as well as mandatory defensive driving courses. Having tests every 5 years or so, and introducing my testing plan (yeah it would be a pain for good and average drivers, but it would get rid of a few shitty drivers and bring other shitty drivers up to a good level).
Young people DO cause a lot of accidents, but it's lack of training, not just 'cuz they are "young and reckless" (although, that is a factor).
But yeah, "Ooooh, more road accidents... couldn't be that we are making people paranoid about speed, or that there are a record number of idiots on the road... must be young people."
Bah.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 12:01
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 20:59 |
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 14:32 |
And quite frankly, bringing back a driving age of 21 would see some improvment (reducement) of moronic stunts some of these people pull as well on the roads.
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While thats one way of looking at it, I believe that is a stupid suggestion. I'm not directly attacking you, but I don't think its the age that matters persay, its the level of training and the fact it is easy to get a licence.
Put it this way, based on a driving age of 21, I wont get my licence for 10 months from now, and I will have to wait another couple of years to feel confident enough in my driving abilities to drive a car like the one I'm restoring.
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I agree that the +21 idea isn't so good,
Isn't there an 18yr old race car driver? I believe abit of skill is required for that.
And how many under 21's require the use of a car to get to work or school, sure there are fukwits out there but why punish everyone? B4 for you say take public transport i'm 19 and work security at night theres no bus at this time and i'm not paying $50+ to take a taxi across town each night.
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Please understand before quoting me.
Maturity is my point there.
18 year old racecar driver?
Where's the point? The road is not a race track and cannot be compared to it. As soon as you can understand that is the day you begin to be a better driver. If that is all that guy does is do track work, then he has no experience required for normal road driving.
And because you asked for it, don't take public transport, that's for loosers without a license. Get a different job instead. 
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Yeah. A driving age of 21 would reduce road accidents, but having a more rigorous testing system would reduce them much further in my opinion. I think fifteen should be the legal age for L plates, not 16. Having driving training at schools, having mandatory tests with driving instructors (perhaps payed for by the government) as well as mandatory defensive driving courses. Having tests every 5 years or so, and introducing my testing plan (yeah it would be a pain for good and average drivers, but it would get rid of a few shitty drivers and bring other shitty drivers up to a good level).
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It sounds like what I've already ranted, except for the 15year old thing. Geezus mate, we don't need children behind a wheel. Unless your plan is for 15yo kids to have their L's (and only able to drive with a full licensed driver at all times) until they are 18 sounds like it could work.
The only way to get decent driving experience ATM except paying for an advanced driving course, (actually, in addition to), is to take a pizza delivery job for 3 years or so to gain plain experience. Worked fine for me. Almost 9 years on full license so far now and zero traffic violations against my name. 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 14:29
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Yeah, give 15 year olds L plats, not full licences. I think we would go well to let 17 year olds get their full licence then making the legal drinking age 21. I think it's retarded to let people drink and drive at the same time. However, I am aware that a lot of 16 year olds drink, but I still think it would help.
I see plenty of people inherit their parents bad driving habbits. We should have driving instruction at school (from theory at age 14, to experience at 15 to 17). Then all that other stuff I mentioned.
Here is my Licence renewal plan in full:
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=25203&rid=4146&S=1af11735cea3a542aebde7e 221aa87e2&pl_view=&start=0#msg_215946
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Tue, 06 January 2004 22:12
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I have lost count of the number of times I have had to swerve/brake hard to avoid an accident in the last year or so. And of course you always give that person a nice glare, lean on the horn or whatever. And if memory serves me correctly not ONCE has the offender been less than 30 years old (well as far as you can tell from there).
We are just a convieniant scape goat. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 00:25
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Apollo, I understood you fully in regards to maturity when I quoted that. I don't personally see how you write off every 17yo as being immature. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't age or even exactly maturity that is responsible for road accidents, its a lack of attentiveness and a lack of adequate training. I think the ages are fine, 16yo gets their L's and 17yo's can get their P's.
It was one of those Today Tonight/A Current Affairs shows that I saw a thing about roundabouts and how there are so many people are useless at navigating them nearly causing accidents. That just shows that there are serious issues with the training of people, you can't just tackle young people.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 00:27
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| Caledwvech wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 06:12 |
We are just a convieniant scape goat.
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Nicely put
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 00:45
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Yeah I agree. Training has a lot to do with it. And if everyone got better training the road would be a safer place. I was driving around paddocks years and years before I got my license so it meant that by then I already knew how to drive which helped so much.
However training isnt everything. It's also the driver. I dont know about you, but I think the most dangerous drivers on the road (apart from the idiots who insist on going 60k's over the limit the whole time) are the cautious drivers. I know someone (who shall remain unknown) who is a cautious driver. Changing lanes goes something like this:
1. Look in rearview mirror and over shoulder
2. Put blinker on
3. Look over shoulder and in rearview mirror again, and at the same time swerve slightly towards that lane.
4. Jerk back suddenly when realised swerving.
5. If another car is within 5 meters of the back of your car, wait.
6. Look over once again at the same time as pulling foot off accelerator.
7. Accelerate hard into other lane relieved that yet another obstacle has been overcome.
Now I dont know about you, but I get really nervous when driving with those people and also driving anywhere near them.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 01:13
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Me 2 Caledwvech. I'm not the best driver in the world, but I think I'm better than atleast 70% of people out there, if not 80%.
I would like my skill level to be average, not well above average.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 01:14
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| Caledwvech wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 08:45 |
Now I dont know about you, but I get really nervous when driving with those people and also driving anywhere near them.
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So do I, so I don't drive with them
When they offer to drive, Im like, "nah, I'll drive, its cool"
I'd rather see ppl doing stupid things on the road, than people being uber cautious
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 01:31
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I don't see why the government can't use some of its revenue from the permanent speed camera's to subsidise advanced driving courses or similar.
Of all the accidents I have seen they have always been due to poor decision making on the drivers part not because of speed...
"Ineptitude kills!"
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 01:34
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Stupid young reckless drivers don't live to be old reckless drivers, hence there are more young reckless drivers. (2 of my former mates fall into this category).
Either that or the scare the f@#$ outta themselves and settle down a bit.
At the end of the day everyone fucks up (some more frequently than others) when they are driving, some just fuck up worse...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 01:36
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Advanced driving courses help people to learn how to handle a car, they don't suddenly make someone a better decision maker...and (in my view) it is mostly bad decisions that cause accidents, not peoples ability to handle a car.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 01:47
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Advanced driving courses will help people learn how to react in some of the more unusual circumstances... e.g. Most people just freak when a car cuts in front of them and slam the brakes...
If you want real life advanced driving training come over and drive the AE71 in the wet...
And as I said before "Ineptitude Kills!"
in·ep·ti·tude ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-pt-td, -tyd)
n.
The quality of being inept; ineptness.
An inept act or remark.
in·ept ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-pt)
adj.
Not apt or fitting; inappropriate.
Displaying a lack of judgment, sense, or reason; foolish: an inept remark.
Bungling or clumsy; incompetent: inept handling of the account.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 04:02
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 10:25 |
Apollo, I understood you fully in regards to maturity when I quoted that. I don't personally see how you write off every 17yo as being immature. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't age or even exactly maturity that is responsible for road accidents, its a lack of attentiveness and a lack of adequate training. I think the ages are fine, 16yo gets their L's and 17yo's can get their P's.
It was one of those Today Tonight/A Current Affairs shows that I saw a thing about roundabouts and how there are so many people are useless at navigating them nearly causing accidents. That just shows that there are serious issues with the training of people, you can't just tackle young people.
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Yes, I remember being 17 though and the sort of things that 17 year olds get up to. 
But my maturity point is only one of many. But as Caledwvech has said, there are plenty more:
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I have lost count of the number of times I have had to swerve/brake hard to avoid an accident in the last year or so. And of course you always give that person a nice glare, lean on the horn or whatever. And if memory serves me correctly not ONCE has the offender been less than 30 years old (well as far as you can tell from there).
We are just a convieniant scape goat.
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Yes, I find that the majority of lane cutters/whatever else causes me to brake hard is in this age group as well, (and are women). But they are basically not likely to be the ones with the loud music doing the ful sic burnouts from every stop. They are just the ones to endanger their children that are with them instead.
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1. Look in rearview mirror and over shoulder
2. Put blinker on
3. Look over shoulder and in rearview mirror again, and at the same time swerve slightly towards that lane.
4. Jerk back suddenly when realised swerving.
5. If another car is within 5 meters of the back of your car, wait.
6. Look over once again at the same time as pulling foot off accelerator.
7. Accelerate hard into other lane relieved that yet another obstacle has been overcome.
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1 and 2 is what you should do anyway. You DO check your blind spot don't you and never rely soley upon your mirrors? I ALWAYS check over my shoulder and make sure there is at least a car length between me and any other car in the lane I'll be going into to avoid in the event that if I change lanes and the car then which will be infront of me brakes hard and I have to as well, there is plenty of space behind me.
Plus I hate having to change lanes right infront of someone making them an instant tailgater. I know I hate it when it happens to me.
It just comes down to courtesy and sense.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 04:15
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Yeah. I always head check. Mum on the other hand, does not. In fact, her neck and back is so bad, she can't head check, it causes her too much pain.
So yeah. Its scary driving with her.
Anyway, hows this for statistics?
The second highest fatality rate for drivers is 60 zones (highest being 100 zones).
Now, if I was the government, I would take a look at this. What is the second lowest fatality speed limit (excluding sub 40kmh zones)? The answer to that is, unlimited.
So I say we replace all speed zones, except 40 zones with unlimited speed zones. It's the only way to insure the safety of the community.
... well it makes about as much sense as what the cops say, and I have more statistics to back me up!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 04:24
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Yes I most certainly do check my blind spots etc. It's just that when the unnamed person swerves back and forth before changing lanes it gets a bit hairy.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 04:35
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hey, want to feel like a good driver? go drive down Rowe St. in eastwood through the shops. I guaruntee you will feel like Colin McRae within 5 minutes
Those cameras have done NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to help the road toll this Christmas. how LONG will we suffer under a dumb government! Rise up peeps, we will make the Bolsheviks look like a picnic
It would be interesting to look at the actual statistics of the crashes this chrissy (sad as it is) just to see the average age of people involved etc.
Inexperience will always equate to crashes a lot more than speed will. Bring on the driver training! I will be there with bells on.. well.. maybe...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 05:05
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i dont know about anyone else.. but i only stopped speediong after i lost all my points and only have one left.. the camera's didnt affect me at all... until now
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 14:19
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I have one point left too. I can't wait for my P plates to come off, then I get... what is it, 8 points. Waahaha.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Wed, 07 January 2004 14:36
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only 8?.. i get 12
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:10
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Yeah but I have lost 4 allready. Ps only get 5 total.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Dodgy Government / Police One-Sided Thinking
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:38
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| Caledwvech wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 14:24 |
Yes I most certainly do check my blind spots etc. It's just that when the unnamed person swerves back and forth before changing lanes it gets a bit hairy.
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That's good.
But yea. I dunno about that swerving friend of yours. I'd rather be driving the car instead like you said you do too.
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dont know about anyone else.. but i only stopped speediong after i lost all my points and only have one left.. the camera's didnt affect me at all... until now
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Wow, you guys suck.
I did say that I have no violations against my name, that is true, but I sure didn't say anything about ALWAYS driving in the speed limit.
How do I get away with it? I think I'll keep that secret. And it's also this secret that makes me a better driver than the majority of the general public as well.
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Those cameras have done NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to help the road toll this Christmas. how LONG will we suffer under a dumb government! Rise up peeps, we will make the Bolsheviks look like a picnic
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Yep, that's been true the day they brought those things out. Fact is, more people are speeding / (NO 'AND' in there), killing others then ever before.
Most crashes happen at sub 20km/h speeds anyway.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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