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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Turbo size?
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Wed, 07 January 2004 06:34
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What sort of turbo am i going to need to get about 180kw at the rear wheels in a 4agte mr2?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Wed, 07 January 2004 07:12
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Dude, do you realise that around 350HP at the crank???!!! Bugger the turbo, what are you going to do to the motor and gearbox to put that out reliably?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Wed, 07 January 2004 08:57
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I know that 
Cool huh!
Considering they are getting 294kw atw in a 4agte ke70 ( zoom issue 71. And they say it is " Easy and Reliable " ) I don't think that asking for 180kw is a lot!
I've got everything else sorted out, I'm just not that good with turbo's so i need one that will give me the power i want just without too much lag.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Wed, 07 January 2004 11:07
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I've seen a Garrett GT30 put out 185kW from a 4A-G(T)E in a Celica.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Wed, 07 January 2004 15:05
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| fatmr2 wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 16:57 |
I know that
Cool huh!
Considering they are getting 294kw atw in a 4agte ke70 ( zoom issue 71. And they say it is " Easy and Reliable " ) I don't think that asking for 180kw is a lot!
I've got everything else sorted out, I'm just not that good with turbo's so i need one that will give me the power i want just without too much lag.
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Have you seen the guy's on here with the "Performance, reliable, cheap ..., you can only have two of the three" signatures?!!! I'd suggest their "easy and reliable" is backed by a well worn wallet!
For what it's worth, I feel a GT30 on a 4AG may very well produce the figures you quest after, however turbo lag would make it misearable to drive. Why do you want so much power in a car that weighs less than a tonne?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Wed, 07 January 2004 20:24
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CLG:
Number one my car actually weighs just over a tone!
And number two I'm not scared to spend the money!
You make it sound as though only people who do things on the cheap come to this site?
I'm building this car for my own reasons, if i wanted to hear i shouldn't do that to my car, I'm sure i can go and visit my mum!!!
Arent you supposed to be a car enthusiast?
SOARER:
Do you know if they experienced much lag? Also, I'm restricted by space a little bit, will it fit in my car?
Is that celica the green one with the yogi plates?
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:43
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garette GT25 will do just waht ur after and not too much lag eith gt 30 way to big for a 1.6... however perfect for my mr2 ..... (comming soon)
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:52
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| fatmr2 wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 19:57 |
I know that
Cool huh!
Considering they are getting 294kw atw in a 4agte ke70 ( zoom issue 71. And they say it is " Easy and Reliable " ) I don't think that asking for 180kw is a lot!
I've got everything else sorted out, I'm just not that good with turbo's so i need one that will give me the power i want just without too much lag.
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'easy and reliable' in ZOOM generally means "a lot of heartache and a number of girlfriends, about to reposess my house and half the build money wasted on R&D - but it runs sweet now!" 
most of the dyno figures ZOOM print are oneoffs, eg lets put it up to 18psi for this run only, and then we'll set it back to 10 again for normal use. ZOOM are under the impression that once you have a dyno-printout /timeslip, your car is instantly that fast/powerful all the time.
and asking 180RWkW out of a 1.6L twincam fourpot is a lot to ask. my 1UZFE makes that much, and that 2.5x your engine in capacity with a similar redline. you can generally double the output of a factory engine without breaking it, anything above and beyond that you're looking at cams, pistons, rods etc.
the one that Soarer is talking about (180RWkW) has a fair amount of internal mods.
and 294RWkW out of a 4AGTE? that's approx 400hp at the wheels. that's 520hp out of a 1.6L, or 325hp per litre at the engine approx - or 2.5 times the power per litre output of a V8 supertourer.
there are only 2 engines that can take anywhere near this power on std bottom ends - and i'm talking theoretically here because i'm running on what i've seen the bottom ends put out (still not this much though) - is the 2.7L hilux engine (3RZ-FE) and the 1-2-3UZFE.
serious work will be needed, billet rods, forged pistons, ARP bolts, 20V head, individual throttles, lowlowlow CR (like 7.5:1).
you may produce the numbers, but i bet a stock 4AGZE with a GT25 off the side will beat you in a roll-on - because it will lack any kind of useable power and torque.
that said, if you just want a dyno monster then go for for it. who am i to tell you what you want...!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:57
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And just because people are using GT30's on their 4a's it doesnt make it 'good' as such.
Depends on what your after.. Do you want a car that can only go in a straight line?
Or do you want a car that will spool quick, hold to redline and still be able to fang it around corners which is what the mr2 was made for?
T28, or GT2530 are my picks
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:13
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fatmr2, I'm not knocking your aspiration, but am a little bemused as to why you want that much power? I undestand the figure is acheivable, however personally I feel, as has already been quoted by others, it will not be a streetable package. Having said that, if your intention is for a dyno killer, go for it! Let us know what other mods you have plannned and how you go with the build?!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 04:20
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Like i said, I dont mind spending the money! Money really isnt an issue. I've already got a lot of the parts that i need. Im just looking for a turbo.
Put it this way.....My brother has a suzuki cappuccino which is 660cc, It put's out 104.5kw at the rear wheels, It weighs about 680-700kg.
There is my motivation!
I will spend what it takes to get my car to where it has to be.
I just figure that 180kw atw should be enough. Should it not be then i guess i will have to try again. In the mean time i like sprinta's idea of the t28/ gt2530.
Oh yeah, onejayzed, I thought these forums were here so i didnt spend all my money in r&d  and dont worry about the girlfriends, mine bought me a nice intercooler for christmas
Thanks for all the help guys 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 04:32
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660cc is putting out out 104rwkw????? 
That was very nice of your g/f. Did you give her any "hints"????
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 04:54
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Yep. 104.5kw atr
If you want to see an article on it go to: ribera.customer.netspace.net.au/cap.htm
It will be in zoom magazine very soon as well.
As for the intercooler, Yeah, i gave some hints
I'll be hinting for a new computer for my birthday 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:18
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well, brand new roller T28s ex S15 silvia are only $1350odd NEW from Nissan....!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:45
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cool
What's the difference between a bb t28 and a gt 28?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 07:32
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one comes from Nissan and cost $1350, one comes from a performance parts shop and costs $1600.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 08:32
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i see
So they are the same thing then?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Thu, 08 January 2004 11:29
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Yep, I was referring to Yogi's Celica.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Turbo size?
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Fri, 09 January 2004 05:58
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| CLG wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 02:05 |
Have you seen the guy's on here with the "Performance, reliable, cheap ..., you can only have two of the three" signatures?!!! I'd suggest their "easy and reliable" is backed by a well worn wallet!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Fri, 09 January 2004 06:19
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Thanks joshstix! I know the guy who owns that car, Ben. I forgot all about his car. I had the chance to buy his set up last year.
This just proves a lot of you wrong. That car runs standard internals. He's running a gt28 440hp turbo that comes on at 3200rpm. It runs something like 25-30 psi.
So my aim of 180rwkw is easy as. The bar has just been raised i think
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Fri, 09 January 2004 06:27
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I never said i want 400hp? Onejayzed said it and he was talking about the car in zoom.
I said 180rwkw, and by the looks of things thats what i'll be gett'n
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Fri, 09 January 2004 06:30
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that is 321hp at the crank then
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Fri, 09 January 2004 06:34
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Cool, sounds like more when you say 321hp
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Turbo size?
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Fri, 09 January 2004 07:08
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yeah i was talking about fatmr2's example, not his car.
rear wheel -> engine power is always sketchy. most people run off 30%, but i have seen figures as high as 40% (ie stock WRX - although that is 4WD, and most automatics...) and i have seen figures as low as 15% (good gearing, good oil etc).
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