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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 02:31
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I'm trying to talk my brother into getting a MkIII supra to replace his Celica (he's also looking at a Statesman)
the options at the moment prolly are getting 7MGTE powered Supra and checking the H/G and hoping it hasn't been thrashed and leaving it at that. OR finding a non turbo 7m that is in good nick and putting a 1J in it.
If option 2 is taken how long would the conversion take if a JZA70 front cut was used, I mean is it a weekend swap or a little longer??
and secondly will a 7M/7MGTE/1JGTE powered supra be able to pull a 17ft fibreglass boat over short trips (boat ramp is only down the road)
And if a front cut is used what else as far as parts are likly to be required (exhaust??)
Cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 02:46
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just buy a 7mgte and pray it doesnt have a bhg. Im fully rebuilding my ma70 7mge atm..is gonna cost me about 2k all up..but thats for a brand new engine!!
To my way of thinking, which i'll stick by, is i want to know exactly what i have..i now know i have a great engine which is like new. rather than some import motor already done 100,000km which is half gone. I pulled down my motor to find the original head was rooted...and i doubt many of the imported engines would be better.
Nothing wrong with the 7m..just buy it and expect the worse.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 02:47
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yes it will pull the boat...but i dont think you should be using a 3.0l car weighing 1700kg to pull a boat that probably weighs 2 tonnes? That goes for any engine, unless it was built for it - i.e a landcruiser or the like.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 03:11
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Buying any 7M Supra is a gamble. You might be ok, but you'll probably end up regretting it. I've seen it plenty of times now. Go the 1JZ! Depending on your experience with engine conversions it could be done in a couple of weekends... or much longer if you're new to it. It's pretty easy as engine conversions go.
As for towing, I've towed over a tonne with my MA61, no problems at all. How much does your boat weigh?
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 03:12
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The boat weighs 1400-1500kg and there is only about 30kg down on the towball.
As for this...
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To my way of thinking, which i'll stick by, is i want to know exactly what i have..i now know i have a great engine which is like new. rather than some import motor already done 100,000km which is half gone. I pulled down my motor to find the original head was rooted...and i doubt many of the imported engines would be better.
Nothing wrong with the 7m..just buy it and expect the worse.
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This is the exact approach that I would take. Buy one and expect the worst. I know that the 7M is a good engine (it's toyota) and I'm assuming that if I could find one in generally good condition (pay 10-12k) and do preventative measures to the head problem that should be that. Or find a good body & interior and build up from there for around the same money.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 03:17
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| Norbie wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 14:11 |
Buying any 7M Supra is a gamble. You might be ok, but you'll probably end up regretting it. I've seen it plenty of times now. Go the 1JZ! Depending on your experience with engine conversions it could be done in a couple of weekends... or much longer if you're new to it. It's pretty easy as engine conversions go.
As for towing, I've towed over a tonne with my MA61, no problems at all. How much does your boat weigh?
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I've done 18R-GEU conversions a few times now (including some wiring) but my guess would be if i was using a front cut one would have all the parts required to do the conversion and it could possibly be done in a weekend (long nights). with some help from a few mechanic mates (or anyone not afraid to get dirty)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 03:43
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Yes you have all the parts you need if you have a JZA70 front cut - it's basically just a matter of swapping everything from car A to car B. Still pretty time-consuming though.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 03:47
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On a standard MA70 will tightening the bolts to 72 solve the H/G problem if it doesn't already exist?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 04:09
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buy a cheap ma70 (but good body) and rebuild the motor..you know where you're at then. Expect $1500 for the head (incl gaskets etc) my new head cost $200  
And 750 to fully rebuild it...if someone wants to, ill post it up to show you how well it was rebuilt.
it all depends whether you have the time and money for a car to be sitting artound your yard until it is fixed!
As ive said...ive got 2 cars off the road! One undergoing a major conversion, and the ma70 a major repair!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 04:55
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| Lambolica wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 14:47 |
On a standard MA70 will tightening the bolts to 72 solve the H/G problem if it doesn't already exist?
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Mine was re-done to 72 with an updated toyota head gasket. Running 12psi/exaust/filter for over 1 year without engine issues.
But i will be going the 1jz route very soon 
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 05:01
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| trza2k wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 15:55 |
| Lambolica wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 14:47 |
On a standard MA70 will tightening the bolts to 72 solve the H/G problem if it doesn't already exist?
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Mine was re-done to 72 with an updated toyota head gasket. Running 12psi/exaust/filter for over 1 year without engine issues.
But i will be going the 1jz route very soon
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That's encouraging
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 05:21
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do not expect to have a jz conversion into a m series car in a week...think about all the stuff needed. Computer wiring, exhaust, intercooler, plumbing, custom work
think in months. Most of us on here have taken near the vicinity of years. My ma61 supra's been off the road for 14 months now...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 05:22
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If I was going to be towing I'd go the 7MGTE route as the 1JZ is a bit revvier by nature which probably doesn't suit towing as well. Either one would probably do though.
I towed 1.4t with my 83rwhp 4M-U so I'm sure that any turbo engine will have no problems. Ensure that the tow pack you get is capable of supporting that weight and also ensure that the car is rated that much (I think an MA7x can tow a max of about 1600kg TOTAL).
7MGTE is a gamble, any yes the head bolts will help greatly if the gasket isn't already blown.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 06:59
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 15:21 |
do not expect to have a jz conversion into a m series car in a week...think about all the stuff needed. Computer wiring, exhaust, intercooler, plumbing, custom work
think in months. Most of us on here have taken near the vicinity of years. My ma61 supra's been off the road for 14 months now...
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A conversion like this is nothing like putting an old Ford V8 into a Toyota, don't even try making that comparison. The JZA70 is identical to the MA70 in almost every way apart from the engine. Like I said, you just unbolt everything from the front cut and bolt it into your car; time-consuming but not rocket-science. And yes I have been involved in doing this exact conversion.
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Location:
Castlemaine Vic
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 07:34
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and with the loom /ecu, does it plug in to all the ma70 stuff? is there much work on that side of things?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 08:03
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I think there is some work involved with the dash wiring, but I wasn't involved in that part so I'm not certain. Have a chat to Wastegate, he'll know. As far as I'm aware there's not much in it though; the cars are very similar after all.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 09:24
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Surely the wiring loom and computer wiring off a jza vs ma are totally different?
You also have to find a mid belly sump one for an ma70 (at least my 7m is)I.e soarers and supras are your best bet.
I realise this conversion has little to no effort and work involved in the conversion compared to my v8 conversion. Howver mine hasnt been terribly difficult "yet" Ive taken on a challenge and it will pay off.
Its still not a weekend job. I take my hat off to you if you do most the work yourself and you can have it done in a fortnight.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 11:36
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 19:24 |
Surely the wiring loom and computer wiring off a jza vs ma are totally different?
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Yes it's different, but all you're doing is swapping the ECU and loom from one car to another. If you saw an MA70/JZA70 loom out of the car you'd realise that's not such a big deal.
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You also have to find a mid belly sump one for an ma70 (at least my 7m is)I.e soarers and supras are your best bet.
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Weren't you listening? The JZA70 Supra is the same damn car! Why would you even consider a Soarer engine?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 11:44
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there are more soarer cuts than supras, so just making sure he knows which he can use.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 11:56
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But you just wouldn't...picking another cut when the JZA70 one is a bolt in proposition just doesn't make sense! 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 12:10
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well really why replace one old motor with another old motor that blows turbos rather then gaskets?
Seriously I wonder why people waste so much time and effort when for a little more effort and cost you can get a jza80 front cut! and get a lot better package.
or spend that money on the 7m spending $3000-$4000 on a 7m will probably get you a rebuilt one and hi-flow turbo, ok so it dosnt like to rev to 8000 big deal accept the fact MA70 = heavy it will never be light car with a revy engine....
If you want something that screams its tits off, handles better then an MA70 ever will without MUCH dieting and cost, I suggest you follow some of these peoples ideas...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 12:22
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 23:10 |
well really why replace one old motor with another old motor that blows turbos rather then gaskets?
Seriously I wonder why people waste so much time and effort when for a little more effort and cost you can get a jza80 front cut! and get a lot better package.
or spend that money on the 7m spending $3000-$4000 on a 7m will probably get you a rebuilt one and hi-flow turbo, ok so it dosnt like to rev to 8000 big deal accept the fact MA70 = heavy it will never be light car with a revy engine....
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As far as i am aware the 1jz was a new design. Little more money for jza80 frontcut, have you seen prices lately?(i would say double) and the conversion isnt at straight forward as a jza70->ma70 conversion.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 12:28
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so whats it cost to replace the turbos? big single or muck around with ct9 parts isnt it?
I think you will find norbie is maken a shit load of power with his stock 2jz turbos yeah?
The 4 pot brakes and rotors on that jza80 front cut are of course worth nothing at all so your just paying double for the engine...
Allan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 12:52
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 11 January 2004 23:28 |
so whats it cost to replace the turbos? big single or muck around with ct9 parts isnt it?
I think you will find norbie is maken a shit load of power with his stock 2jz turbos yeah?
The 4 pot brakes and rotors on that jza80 front cut are of course worth nothing at all so your just paying double for the engine...
Allan
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I've seen a few 2jz engine/box/ecu packages for 8k+ no froncut here
I've looked quite hard and in the end just got a jza70 frontcut for way below 1/2 of that.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 21:44
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I (we) have put alot of thourght into what my brother wants in a car and basically he's after a car that is a step up in luxury and power over his RA40. with out any hassles for a while, but at the same time the MA70 has a heap of options that can be thrown at it if the need is there. He has his eye on a particular MA70 with a 7mgte in it and if he decides he is getting it he will have the head re-tourqued and checked for blowouts etc. and left as is for a while while he gets used to increased power, weight and handling if there is a problem in the future, options will be weighed up then. if there are no issues with the engine, it will be upgraded progressivly.
The option of the front cut conversion was looked at if a suitable vehicle can't be found (good condition) as I beleve that the conversion is quite simple, O.K maybe not a weekend job but comparable to putting an 18R-GEU in to an RA28 in terms of it being a straight bolt in and having the front cut would help solve any little wiring issues (also provides spare parts) there would just be more bolts/plugs/wire to sort through than an RA28.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Sun, 11 January 2004 23:53
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If you get a jza-70 front cut (only way to go if you want a 1jz) then just about everything will bolt in. Depending on your type and year of ma70 you may need to use the jza-70 crossmember and engine mounts. Wiring is a matter of mating the jza-70 to the ma70 body loom and dash loom. It took us a while because we had to trace a lot of the wiring from the jza-70 but there are heaps more wiring diagrams on the net these days so it should be easier.
As Norbie said, it is time-consuming though, as just about every part inside the engine bay needs to be swapped over. It took my Dad and I about 7 weekends (sometimes only working on Saturday) Plus you'll find a heap of things that will require fixing/replacement on the way. A 2jz swap would be harder, but again there are heaps of instructions/hints on the net. If you can afford it, it would certainly be the option to go for. If not, the 1jz is a good performer.
Although why bother with a ma70 and engine swap. Damn ma70's are a practical joke played on an unsuspecting public who believe toyotas are reliable by a breakaway group of devil worshipping of toyota enginners who then went to work for Ford (and built the AU). But maybe I'm just saying that because my handbrake cable broke on the weekend and it was a major pain in the arse f**king job to replace it.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Mon, 12 January 2004 00:46
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The MA70 cops a lot more of a hard life then any cressida or celica tho so you have to expect to spend a lot to get them back to as-new
from what i heard from a car salesman (IE likely bullshit but still funny/sad) most of the ma70 turbos that where sold left the dealership sideways and coped that abuse from day one
Allan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Mon, 12 January 2004 02:41
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Other than exhaust and tailshaft a 1JZ into an A70 chassis should take no longer than 2 full days of work IF the front cut is a JZA70 to begin with.
For interests sake it took me 4 weeks to put a 2j with 6 speed into my A70 chassis, this was doing the hard yards on the weekends and the simple tasks like measuring up for the gearbox crossmember and tailshaft length during the weekday evenings.
It's a piss easy conversion and can be made even easier with the use of the JZA70 R154 gearbox.
And yes, all but a small percentage of the A70 chassis is cursed .
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Location:
ACT
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:47
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I've towed a 16ft half cab with a N/A MA70 supra. No problems at all, doesnt quite have 'go' under load but will do 110kmh comfortably and is a much smoother than most I've towed with, much less feed back from the trailer due to IRS. Get heavy duty shocks, OEM ones dont last under the load.
Not easy/cheap to get a towbar they usually need to be individually manufactured at the factory. I think I was lucky to get an OEM one from a guy out west. V.easy to fit if you can get one. Only need to bore 2 bolt holes in the spare tyre well and the towbar is supported by the towing hooks at the rear and will support 1700kgs tho you'd need trailer brakes for sure.
Cheers
OP
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:45
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| OP111 wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 13:47 |
Only need to bore 2 bolt holes in the spare tyre well and the towbar is supported by the towing hooks at the rear and will support 1700kgs tho you'd need trailer brakes for sure.
Cheers
OP
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not sure about other states, but in Qld anything over 750kg's needs trailer brakes
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Location:
ACT
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MA70 Conversion
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Thu, 07 October 2004 07:32
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I think its 1000kgs or so in NSW? Not sure? I can attest to Supra brakes being good enough to stop that much!!
OP
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