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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Sun, 11 January 2004 09:25
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allright boys,
i have my 2tg out and disassembled. also, my 3t is completely stripped, but i found some interesting findings...i could be completely wrong here or off the track so feel free to tell me.
k what i found was, that the blocks for both the 2t and 3t were identical in measurements..everything...except that mine had a dummy cam instead of an actual cam, so im assuming the 2tg is just an adaptation for a dual cam? have i aleady been told that? who knows. maybe i measured wrong :s. well, so the water pump, gaskets etc etc all seemed to be exactly the same, give or take a few inor details.
k, my question is, can i simply bolt the twin cam head onto the 3t block and just get the valve reliefs ground down and strip the overhead cam(effectively making it a dummy), seeing as they are the same?im just thinking, coz if i bolted my head on it, it would save me having to get the crank etc out and have to prepare the block and crank?
another reason why i thought of this is because the 3t block is in a lot better condition than the 2t.
let me know guys, i could be off the track again or missing a vital point but yeah, worth an ask.
thanks heaps!
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Sun, 11 January 2004 10:03
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You definitely need the dummy cam.
I think rotating the rear bearing shells blocks off the oil feeds and keeps the pressure feed up to the twin cam setup. Someone who has pulled one of these apart can confirm this.
Callum
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2003
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Mon, 12 January 2004 16:27
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thanks guys, (y) back to making some progress...
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Tue, 13 January 2004 07:10
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hmm, well it appears progress got halted yet again today on my 2tg. i went to the machine shop today with my head etc, to get gaskets for my head and rings and bearings for the 3t..i told him the procedure im doing to make the hybrid and he we was really unsure about it. he knows it can be done, he was just concerned about the money it was going to cost me :s. he wanted to know more about machining the valve reliefs, i told him the procedure of using plasticine etc. and he thinks that doing this may even wreck a valve in itself, because the stroke is so different in the 3t the pistons may smash on the valves when trying to work how much to take off :s :s. personally i just wanted him to do the bloody thing. but i thought it best to be sure, so what he wants to know is, has anyone actually made the 2t/3t on here, if so: exactly how much did you get ground off the pistons? where did you grind the pistons? what procedure did they use to grind them? and around how much did it cost?
if anyone could help itd be great, even if someone could provide me with the name of someone who is familiar with the procedure it would be most appreciated. thanks guys 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Tue, 13 January 2004 07:43
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one of those crazy puerto-rican drag racers runs a 3T in his 'T18' funny car thingo. massive power too, i think it was Abel Ilbarra or someone...ran 8s from memory.
he has a massive parts catalogue available for $USD6 - and enough parts to make a 3T lover drool and hock their kids/wife/house to build one.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Tue, 13 January 2004 08:35
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sounds like he hasn't got a clue... (not the puerto-rican, he sounds like a gun  )
any 'good' engine builder should be able to figure something like that out no probs. Try Pav-tek engineering http://www.pavtek.com.au/ Some friends of mine have had dealings with them before and it was all good.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Wed, 14 January 2004 01:45
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what, i don't have a clue, or the bloke with the now-dud-bottom-end doesn't?
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Wed, 14 January 2004 03:46
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now dud bottom end?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Wed, 14 January 2004 09:01
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no no, sounds like the guy at the aforementioned machine shop doesn't have a clue...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Thu, 15 January 2004 05:38
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ah...  sorry!
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Thu, 15 January 2004 05:52
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and my bottom end isnt a dud  , lets direct all hostilities towards the machinist
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Thu, 15 January 2004 11:56
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with regards to concerns about piston to valve interference -> What's important is the BLOCK deck height (ie. crank centerline to head mounting surface). when its same: longer stroke crank simply means shorter rods and/or different piston top to wrist pin height. The main concern being with a combination of all these things it may be possible that the piston spends a little more time dwelling at top dead center (whilst the cam's keep turning and smash the valves into the piston top). In reality with correct valve timing and if the pistons aren't dome tops it's pretty safe (especially with standard cams). Also need to consider piston to deck clearance (can easily be measured).
IMO anyone who has ever done any machine work and rebuilt a motor should be able to do it for you (if the head is assembled it's possible even to measure it and allow for thermal expansion, and then do one dummy assembly with the plasticine fro reassurance). The other thing is figuring out the dummy cam to keep the oil system going. Pretty straight forward stuff for an engine builder though. You could always email toysport for more info. I think you should at least have a chat to or email the guys at pavtek as well if you haven't already. They do jap motors as well as v8s, aren't insanely expensive, and aren't dead shits that have only ever rebuilt a holden red motor. my 2c 
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Thu, 15 January 2004 18:03
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hmm, well i made some interesting findings today, so hopefully the rebuild will commence without any further huge delays. needless to say i am changing machine shops ...anyways, im gonna ring the guys you suggested if my latest little burst of energy doesnt work..ill keep u updated, thanks very much for the posts btw (y). oh, im putting race cams in it  , bout 290 degrees....how does your car go dude? what have you had done to it etc
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Forum Sponsor
Location:
Shepparton (Vic)
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Thu, 15 January 2004 21:01
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Why not just use a 2TG piston as a sample for the 3T pistons.I have pretty much been there and done that with 2TG/3TG engines. If you want give me a call on 03 58 231911 bus.
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Fri, 16 January 2004 13:42
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lol, thanks bro, i just had the insight today of doing what you just told me! thanks heaps bro, if any other queries, ill ring that number. hows ur car go by the way??
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Mon, 19 January 2004 04:15
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can anyone give me some info in regard to turboing my project car later on...you see, i would like to make it real fast. but, in order to turbo you have to lower compression, but since im doing the 2t/3t im increasing compression. if i turboed it, would it make all my work useless on the hybrid? how much would it cost to fuel inject and turbo it if i picked up used parts?
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Mon, 19 January 2004 06:08
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gees mate just get him to fly cut the 3t pistons from the 2tg 1s should not be a problem copy exactly gees
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Mon, 19 January 2004 16:34
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yep im on it. does anybody know the standard timing setting for a 2tg? i just need to know it as a general guide when i come to putting it back together, i will use the timing light after i get it in the general area...
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Tue, 20 January 2004 06:32
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something you may or may not need to consider dude, is fuel...
you may have to run premium in it- and the conversion with the mild cams and all the other shit will probably eat up your petrol like its goin outta style....
so i dunno, someone can add some knowledge to these ideas?
oh, and i got the super supra back today man, good times. 
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Tue, 20 January 2004 07:07
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petrols been considered....block has been painted.
and did you get the super supra timed?
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Wed, 21 January 2004 03:06
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10° BTDC at 600rpm
is that right for the 2tg timing? its for just a 2t...
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Location:
Barossa Valley
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 2t 3t hybrid ponderings
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Wed, 21 January 2004 05:37
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16 degrees BTDC @600 RPM for 2TG according to original celica manual
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