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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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engine building
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Tue, 13 January 2004 11:57
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hey everyone
would this work??
i want an agressive N/A motor for my sprinter made to a 4age layout as i dont want to go to the hastle of engineers with a gze or the hastle of water line and dizzy mods with a 20v so here are my thoughts...
gze block as it has forged pistons already...
86kw head as it has bigger valves n ports and i already have one
288" cams (new valve springs)with some head work
compression raised to bout 10 - 11 :1 (somewhere round there)
rwd intake manifold without the tvis plate and rwd throttle body (quad's adapted later on but)
gze DLI with twin coils hooked up with
microtech comp using a map sensor setup...?
**has anyone done anything like this b4??
***is it possible to use the gze block with 86kw head? wats the compression ratio like when this is done?
anyone got anything to add, thoughts, ideas to set me in the right direction...
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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engine building
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Tue, 13 January 2004 12:05
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is it possible to just use the gze but without the supercharger just changet the compression put my cams in and different intake maifold???
how much power can the gze with stock internals take from a n/a setup?
sorry bout the long post but these are just my last big questions needed to decide on wat motor ill be putting in
thanks for any help u can give guys...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: engine building
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Tue, 13 January 2004 12:11
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Using a GZE block may not be the best choice to build a N/A engine as 4AGZE's generally have lower compression to allow force induction from either a supercharger or turbo.
Perhaps you should be looking at a redtop 100kw or 20 valve block as these were made to run with higher compression standard?
Then again, it's probably been done but as to the results ... 
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: engine building
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Tue, 13 January 2004 12:15
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Late gze 7 rib blocks are the same a 100kw and 20v blocks. Its the pistons that are forged and are low compression. Useless for a na motor. Its probably best to use a 100kw block and get a set of cams for it and mabye a port job. When your rebuilding it get everything balanced including crank flywheel and crank pulley. Some people say it wont make any difference but it carnt hurt at high revs and its cheap.
Brad
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: engine building
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Tue, 13 January 2004 12:30
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| purpleminiep wrote on Tue, 13 January 2004 23:15 |
Late gze 7 rib blocks are the same a 100kw and 20v blocks. Its the pistons that are forged and are low compression. Useless for a na motor. Its probably best to use a 100kw block and get a set of cams for it and mabye a port job. When your rebuilding it get everything balanced including crank flywheel and crank pulley. Some people say it wont make any difference but it carnt hurt at high revs and its cheap.
Brad
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Ah ... cheers for that - yeah, not the block but the internals which makes the difference.
Guess you can draw on either specification from a Formula Atlantic or Group A spec engine to get an idea of how to go things the N/A way ...
May just be cheaper to go 20 valve way IMO ...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 01:41
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why wouldn't you use the GZE block (with the oil squirters) but with higher comp pistons? you'd be nuts not to - it would be a very strong bottom end.
why does he 'have to' use the GZE pistons and rods with the GZE block?
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Location:
Camden
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 04:00
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You know that the 20v have oil squirters aswell? Its a very strong bottom end when used with forced induction. Why would you bother getting a gze bottom end and changing pistons etc when the 20v is exactly the same?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 04:06
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The only difference between the 4agze and other engines is the low compression pistons the rest is the same. Oh and all 4age pistons are forged.
Bigport heads do not have bigger valves, only bigger ports.
A rebuilt bigport engine will go just as hard as a rebuilt smallport, the differences are minor once you start using aftermarket parts in them.
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 04:14
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There are different rods for all 4age variations. 88kw, 100kw, ZE, blacktop, silvertop are all different.
Brad
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 05:35
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i can get a complete 20v motor minus computer with a cut up loom for $595 and then a microtech computer with handset for $1000
id like to go this way but i dont want to cut the firewall id be willing to bash it a lil. i know u can get custom water outlets and a kit to put the dizzy at the front but for the price id pay for that i coud get a 100kw motor and wack that in with cams head work and a complete rebuild...
could i put a DLI setup on the 20v? with gze coils or something? does anyone know and websites that supply these and know if they will work with the microtech and 20v motor? if i could set it up like that id be more willing to attemp the conversion
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 05:47
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IMO just get a GZE or a 20v and get some bigger brakes for engineers cert.
Why wouldn't you want bigger brakes anyway?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 07:02
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| Flogbag wrote on Wed, 14 January 2004 16:35 |
i can get a complete 20v motor minus computer with a cut up loom for $595 and then a microtech computer with handset for $1000
id like to go this way but i dont want to cut the firewall id be willing to bash it a lil. i know u can get custom water outlets and a kit to put the dizzy at the front but for the price id pay for that i coud get a 100kw motor and wack that in with cams head work and a complete rebuild...
could i put a DLI setup on the 20v? with gze coils or something? does anyone know and websites that supply these and know if they will work with the microtech and 20v motor? if i could set it up like that id be more willing to attemp the conversion
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AFAIK you can just fit the complete water pump housing/pump from a 4ac to the 20v, and have the water outlets where you need them.
If your getting a microtech, you don't need the dizzy. You'll have to spend about $1200 on the microtech including coils and ignitors though. From there you just need some sort of cranktrigger/angle sensor. Just about anything you can fit to the engine the microtech will run...
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 08:44
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| de_rift wrote on Wed, 14 January 2004 15:06 |
The only difference between the 4agze and other engines is the low compression pistons the rest is the same. Oh and all 4age pistons are forged.
A rebuilt bigport engine will go just as hard as a rebuilt smallport, the differences are minor once you start using aftermarket parts in them.
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you sure on that? send me a 4AGE piston and i'll check for you.
are the rods the same?? i was under the impression that GZ had thicker rods, and the 20V had lighter rods.
so you think that the port size is a non-issue once you have same cams, compression etc?
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 09:07
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[quote title=de_rift wrote on Wed, 14 January 2004 18:02]| Flogbag wrote on Wed, 14 January 2004 16:35 |
AFAIK you can just fit the complete water pump housing/pump from a 4ac to the 20v, and have the water outlets where you need them.
If your getting a microtech, you don't need the dizzy. You'll have to spend about $1200 on the microtech including coils and ignitors though. From there you just need some sort of cranktrigger/angle sensor. Just about anything you can fit to the engine the microtech will run...
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crank angle sensor? wat type has anyone ever done this? wat type have they used?
and about the water pump from a rwd wat do i do with that, i mean from the back of the pump it goes straight in to the head (would i go from the pump to the bottom of the ratiator then the one that goes into the head go to the top of the radiator?) and then the outlets at the back near the firewall...?
theres the artical in the gallery about fitting a 20v in rwd trim properly but its a little vaige. anyone got pics....
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 10:56
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| oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 14 January 2004 19:44 |
| de_rift wrote on Wed, 14 January 2004 15:06 |
The only difference between the 4agze and other engines is the low compression pistons the rest is the same. Oh and all 4age pistons are forged.
A rebuilt bigport engine will go just as hard as a rebuilt smallport, the differences are minor once you start using aftermarket parts in them.
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you sure on that? send me a 4AGE piston and i'll check for you.
are the rods the same?? i was under the impression that GZ had thicker rods, and the 20V had lighter rods.
so you think that the port size is a non-issue once you have same cams, compression etc?
Cya, Stewart
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yeah your right the rods do differ.
I think I saw a post here of someone that cut a 4age pistons in half revealing the tell tale grain structure of a forged piston.
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: engine building
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Wed, 14 January 2004 11:37
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guys i have come to my conclusion thru many hours of searching the web...
im going to buy a 20v!!
adapt the cooling system using a RWD water pump like in the conversion "how to fit a 20v in rwd trim properly"
use the 20v dizzy minus cap and rotor and get a platic cap of a gze or similar to cover the top of dizzy i seen a 1g dizzy with a cap also at an import yard that looks kinda the same
buy a microtech
buy a low pressure lift pump to pump into a 600ml under floor mounted surge tank then out to a vl or similar high pressure pump down the original steel fuel lines to the motor
custom extractors with zorst work out dimentions etc later
and TRUMPETS with socks.... 4 that great quad throttle body sound
sound like a good plan?
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: engine building
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Thu, 15 January 2004 05:44
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sounds like a good plan if you can afford it. but the question is, why go through all this hassle for a 20V when the gze conversion is far simpler, and gives better performance on the road? GZE for road, 20V for track imo. besides, when you get sick of the GZE power, you already got half the goods for the GTE. and you need an engineers for the 20V anyway. just do like i do and dont get one 
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