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Evil_Foetus
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icon7.gif  5m-e / m-teu hybrid... A few new questions... :) Fri, 16 January 2004 02:51 Go to next message
okie dokie...

im considering the 5m-te option for my ma61, for the following reasons: (before you all jump down my throat about it being a pointless, turd-polishing conversion Nope )

1. price... i have to pay off the car and a 4-5k 7M-GTE conversion is light years away
2. i dont know shit- i still cant escape the fact that i know very little about cars and so on- something that only a hands-on kinda experience can help. probably better for me to fuck up a 5m-te than a 7M-gte.
3. i will put a 7M-GTE in it later on, even if i do the 5m-te conversion
4. my car has only done 119,000 kms so most of the mechanicals are still really good.

so, heres a list of compiled (via search function and other sites) of shit i require, can anyone tell me if i've left anything out?:

REQUIRED:

m-teu manifold
turbo (garrett T3 or equivalent)
m-teu distributor
m-teu dizzy (whats a dizzy??)
metal head gasket

STUFF I'D WANT:
big big intercooler (600x300xsomething, can be used later for 7M/1JZ/2JZ)
boost gauge
2.25" exhaust, 2.75" dump (would that be okay for a 5m-te?)
turbo timer
other random "go fast shit"

considering the 5m-e is about 135 hp, (103kw @ the fly) and an intercooled m-teu is about 165hp (at the fly) is a goal of 200 hp unrealistic? how much boost could i run on the 5m-te, considering the compression ratio is 8.8:1? i was hoping for near to 14psi...

i guess the final decider is the price. if i can get the required shit and maybe an intercooler for under about 1000, ill do it....

thoughts, help, ideas?

thanks y'all Surprised Surprised Surprised

[Updated on: Mon, 15 March 2004 14:25]

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Norbie
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If you built a 5M to actually hold together at that power level, it will end up costing more than a 7M swap and have less power to boot. Several people have been down this path and regretted it.

Of course you could bodge up a turbo 5M on the cheap if you really want to. You'll get real good at replacing headgaskets! Laughing
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ed_ma61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
good luck getting the 5me computer to fuel 14psi. possible, but not probable. plus it be wagering the engine detonating its titties off @ 14psi if it wasnt prepared fo it.

6-8psi, yeah fer sure. but do you want to spend big dollaros doing all this + a mofo IC when only running such little boost? 200hp is doable, but that would be the limit imho.

secondly - good luck finding a mteu dizzy - i know where one is, but its being sold as a package. rebuilding that package as a standard 2.0L mteu could be a bit of fun tho. easy and decent place to start (cheap capital costs too)

honestly? 5me + turbo + manifold + dizzy + piping and fuelling etc etc = expensive

anyway - why are you afraid of fucking something up? what do you want to experience? building a motor? do you later intend to build a 7mgte? i cat see why, if you intend to go 7mgte later on, why you dont start in that direction now. get an dud engine and pull it to bits. see how it works, keep any good looking bits, and just junk it (always fun to pull stuff apart when you know it doesnt have to go back together).

read, pull stuff apart, compile, and in a year or so, youll find yourself ready to build a monster
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gezzzz norbie your not one to put aside personal feelings for fact are you Razz

FACT: 63rwkw out of awell worn/thrashed LPG fed 5m-e with shit 16.5:1 mixtures and the head gasket still lasted 3 months with those mixtures

FACT: 5m's have the same factory low torque on the head bolts, fix this and get a good smooth (none of the bullshit head shops feed you about needing BITE on the gasket, its just quicker todo a ruff finish) with decent mixtures the head gasket no longer an issue unless your doing something crazy like pushing 400hp out of one in a crown Smile

FACT: most 5m-te's die beacause people leave the standard 5m dizzy in = no boost retard BANG

Research it well, implment it well, it will go well as for what power you will make who knows

Dont follow the sheep, many people told Ed the 7m-ge would suck, it seems to be kicking ass now the bugz are geting ironed out

5M's can be picked up for free no great drama if you blow one up in the process of tuning, doing a headgasket takes 1/2 day and costs $100 incl geting it surfaced lot cheaper to learn on a 5m then a #JZ-gte!

Allan
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ed_ma61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ahh take me back to my first ever toymods post on march 2002::

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/viewthread.php?FI D=4&TID=4612
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ed_ma61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Allan wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 14:26

many people told Ed the 7m-ge would suck, it seems to be kicking ass now the bugz are geting ironed out


who sid it'd suck??? why i oughtta!!!

yeah, the gtech runs last night were very encouraging...

times suggesting im currently getting 187-203rwhp
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmm okay, we will lose the 200hp/ 14psi idea.

i just found another thread- with a better list of required stuff.

m-teu manifold...
m-teu distributor (distributor = dizzy?)
T3 turbo (off VL commiedore Eye Spin )
XF Falcon injectors
sump with oil pickup line/hole thing

and i'd also like to put an intercooler on... albeit not a huge one now that you say it ed... perhaps a 2 litre jza80 cooler?

any idea of what would this conversion cost, and any idea of hp? im just trying to cover all bases, and learn a bit.

and ed- i like that 7m-gte pulling apart idea. Very Happy anyone got any fucked motors i can have and pull to bits? Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


thanks everyone, this is really helpful. i also like this idea coz its keeping the supra "in its era", and it is kinda unique. Very Happy you can blame classique71 and allan for putting it in my head. Very Happy Very Happy

[Updated on: Fri, 16 January 2004 03:35]

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ed_ma61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Evil_Foetus wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 14:31

XF Falcon injectors


that was my idea, i modified the manifold to suit the injectors etc (they are 214cc vs 182cc stock) and youd need an adjustable fuel pressure regualtor to run them. a rising rate fuel pres reg might not go astray either....

dave?? did you end up installing the 214's ?

hehehe- "in its era + unique" that was my excuse a long time ago....
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I will be going 5m-te in my MA45 for that reason too... and you have it even easyer as you can say its a factory option as per MA63....

then whoops i accidently used a 5m block damn is 2.8 rather then 2.0 Smile or if you where rebuilding one look into a 6m/7m crank whoops 3.0ltr 5m turbo Smile i dought anyone would be that observent to notice Smile aslong as the rego says its turbo and the engine number is correct *shrug*

Allan
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 14:42

Evil_Foetus wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 14:31

XF Falcon injectors


that was my idea, i modified the manifold to suit the injectors etc (they are 214cc vs 182cc stock) and youd need an adjustable fuel pressure regualtor to run them. a rising rate fuel pres reg might not go astray either....

dave?? did you end up installing the 214's ?



whats a fuel pressure regulator? are they expensive, or hard to install?

are the bigger injectors required, or are they just a good idea?
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P.S Dave is currently offline till optus get out to his place

And he hasnt installed the falcon injectors, i have dibs on that engine too Very Happy if assholes stop stealing shit from my car and i get some money to buy the sucker Razz

Allan

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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i reckon a simple rebuild of daves mte (as is) would be a great place to start (similar to 7m too). plus its all there, you have nothing extraordinary to fabricate or figure out. just buy it, bore it, re-ring it, bearings and gaskets and seals. probaby put you into the $1200-1400 dollar mark no more to pay... and youd probably walk away with 160odd hp, or more if you got fancy and tried winding up the boost a little (gotta prep the engine though). might have enough in it to sustain 12psi... im not sure

... plus as allan suggested, its a factory option, and requires no engineering.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Allan wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 14:48

P.S Dave is currently offline till optus get out to his place

And he hasnt installed the falcon injectors, i have dibs on that engine too Very Happy if assholes stop stealing shit from my car and i get some money to buy the sucker Razz

Allan




Laughing Laughing

well thanks everyone for this help- im basically trying to find everything out and work some prices out. if i can do it cheap, ill probably do it.

and allan- if you hear of any mteu manifolds and dizzies, keep me in mind Very Happy


EDiT: Allan, just got your pm, thanks a million Very Happy

[Updated on: Fri, 16 January 2004 03:53]

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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buy my MTEU for a paltry $400 (negotiable). Bolt all the good gear on your 5ME and play. I wouldn't run more than 6-7 psi. Don't expect the world from it.

Reports are of around 90 rwkW with about 7 psi.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'd like to build up a 3ltr 5M-TE would be interesting, plenty of torque thats for shure, also had a crazy yank mention milling down the rocker gear supports so custom studs can be fitted head clamped down and then rocker gear fitted... I think just some new bolts torqued down more and decent surfaces solve the issue then its just a matter of geting the 5m-e ecu to play along or going full aftermarket / or something like this http://www.performancemotorresearch.co.nz/

would love to track down one of the rare original water-air intercooled m-teu's

Allan
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DAVE! optus been around allredy???? damn! defintly not telstra!!!

Allan
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dave-

is this mteu the one allan has his eye on? coz apparantly he has first dibs, which is fair enough...

do you have a manifold and dizzy (5m modified or mteu?) as well, or just this one engine?

thanks Very Happy
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The former doctor of M now doctor of JZ has many M bits to drool over and the previos mentioned kit is not what im after

Allan
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Allan wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 15:12

The former doctor of M now doctor of JZ has many M bits to drool over and the previos mentioned kit is not what im after

Allan



lol
Laughing Laughing


rightio, sounds good....

do i need a boost controller to regulate the 6-7psi boost, or does it run that stock?

also dave, does that $400 kit include a turbo?
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ed_ma61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no, no boost cotroller req
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oooh i see.

so the described kit from gianttomato would be everything i need to turbo the all-mighty 5me? i'd think about intercooling it too, for that bit of extra power... what size intercooler would be sufficient?
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a stock ma70 cooler would be cheap to get and do the job

Allan
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cool...

so would i need to get a new hg or torque the existing one down?
would i be able to run about 10psi with the hg done? (future mod)

also, do i need to whack the bigger injectors in?

thanks for everyone's input, norbie, ed, allan, dave, its been really great. Very Happy if you ever want to know about....um... painting warhammer miniatures Nope Nope Nope , i can probably help you out Very Happy
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Depends if it has like 100,000km on it i would prolly rip it off get new stem seals, a valve job and a nice smooth head job (the best kind) may need a few heli-coils for the exhaust manifold studs in the head then chuck it back together... if there is a lot taken off the head probably get the chambers opened up a bit to lower the compression

i would also setup some water injection to remove any carbon deposits and lessen the chance of any detonation

another person to talk to is supra1978?? aka Richard hes been runing a 4m-te for years in his ma46 and seems happy with it besides the stock turbo being a bit small!

Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hahahhaha
warhammer
i used to have quite a large empire army, semi decent skaven(loved the war wheel thingo), van saar(loved necromunder Razz) gang and had planned a dark angle army
but that never happend
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V8_MA61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
you'll probably get as much or more hp from a 7mge - thats non turbo!
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I was thinking of going 5M-TE and have messaged GT many times and even asked to see if anyone is wanting to sell the (MTE) manifold and dizzy.

Currently I am still doing the math in wheather or not to go a head as there is insurance, legal and other complicatioins with the conversion.

I still haven't made my mind up whether or not to get the MTE and make a hybrid, to just get a 7MGE and bolt that up to the MA61, or keep the stock look and keep the 5M-E and keep it running.

Cheers.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tim- i noticed after my use of the search function that you were interested into looking at the 5mte hybrid....

with most insurance companies, do they get scared by power figures or the word "turbo"??

but yes, im talking to GT about one of his manifold, dizzy and all that kits.... but yes.

practically, my car is in the mechanics because my radiators a bit fuct.... and its also frothing and running rich etc as mentioned long ago. if its all fine, i will probably do the 5m-te.... with the help of GT and allan and the rest of you guys Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Fri, 16 January 2004 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah theres a good point your 5m is probably not the healthyest from the mentioned radiator contents i would suspecting chemi-weld Sad

Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sat, 17 January 2004 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
take my advice - buy a 7mge with a loom and computer, or wait for a 7mgte 1/2 cut. bolts in, and you can use your bellhousing.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmmm well ill soon know whether my 5m-e is okay.... my mechanic seems to think its not chemi-weld n stuff, so i guess i can only see...

gives me time to save for dave's mteu...

just another question... everything bolts right up right?

exhaust manifold, exhaust, air intake shit into the turbo, dizzy, sump etc? so i should just be able to pull bits off the mteu and whack them on the 5me and it'll work? i can use all the air intake shit off the mteu on the 5me?

basically, what are the chances of me being able to do the conversion myself? i realise that i will need help with the dizzy regarding timing etc...

heres some pictures:

m-teu
http://www.geocities.com/ifli4u/ma639.jpg (copy and paste link)

my 5m-e

http://users.netconnect.com.au/~kaitlyn/white16.jpg

is it going to be more complicated than i'd hoped? whats the go with oil drain lines etc? dave said that the mteu goes to the block- what does this mean?

thanks guys Very Happy


and v8_ma61- the 7m-gte will be phase 2. Evil or Very Mad

[Updated on: Sun, 18 January 2004 01:27]

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V8_MA61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 02:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
but why waste your money on phase 1. For $1000 max more you can have the 7m! Trust me, wait till your 5m shits itself, and by then perhaps you'll have the money to get 1/2 as much hp and reliability and strength again!

Blake.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I have to agree. Much as I like the DIY approach and trying something different, I can see a project like this bringing more grief than it's worth. Don't do things by halves, be patient save your money and do the job properly!
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
get a piece of paper, and write down the costs of both conversions, there wont be a major difference. You still need a computer, intercooler and all the stuff that goes with it..
Work on 2500 for a 7mgte 1/2 cut.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
you can run the 5m-te off the 5m-e ecu, i ran a 6m-ge off a 5m-e ecu with no major issues

And an intercooler will be fine for what ever turbo engine he gets in the future

Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 05:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
just use the mteu ecu with the 5me injectors

[Updated on: Sun, 18 January 2004 05:59]

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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 07:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i still think its a waste of money and time when there are so many 7m's available. i just pulled down a 7m motor and was pleasantly surprised at how well and tough they are built. Really a nice engine. Built tough.

Heres the problem for you. Being young you want plenty of HP right? You wont get it from the 5m..simply put. You can turbo it and then see it doesnt have as much as you want...keep upping the boost and playing more...its inevitable it will blow up. Spin a big end, break rods/rod bolts, crack a piston...
And you also have to rebuilt the motor before you turbo it. It would be a "REALLY" stupid thing to do to turbo an old worn out motor. What has it done - 300, 000km?? I.e everything is worn. Look at the big end bearing i posted up in this sectoin - that was after 223,000km...i doubt the ones in your 5m would look better!!

Something to consider, but im just saying (and i think im supported) All this is gonna do, is create headaches and a loss of large sums of money.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What put me off the conversion is that you have to go and get custom oil lines from the turbo to the block which costs money...

Also you have to consider is all the plastics in the engine bay near the exhaust. I have an alarm mounted besides the brake booster thus, heat shield has to be made otherwise all the plastics would be melted just for starters. Getting the compression in the block lower then what it curttently is.

Also all small minor problems.

Cheers.
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ZZT231 wrote on Sun, 18 January 2004 21:27

What put me off the conversion is that you have to go and get custom oil lines from the turbo to the block which costs money...

Also you have to consider is all the plastics in the engine bay near the exhaust.


theyre both pretty poor excuses for not going with any given engine imho. not that im saying the 5mte is a brilliant idea, but 2 oil lines, a coolant hose and moving your alarm module is hardly an effort. and hardly expensive either...
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yes those custom lines cost soooooo much i think it cost like $1 to get into pick-a-part to get some LPG filler line (300psi rated petroleum product safe) hose, re-useable fittings and then about another $5 in brass fittings for the block and turbo!

Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
V8_MA61 wrote on Sun, 18 January 2004 18:16

i still think its a waste of money and time when there are so many 7m's available.


Most are screwed tho the small oil filters go into by-pass when not serviced correctly and score the heads and cams badly, very hard to find a low km example now days!

if you have a 5m you mose well spend $400 enjoy some extra grunt, learn about turbos and engines on something cheap and common!

Allan
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March 2003
Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wow, thanks everyone, tis a great read with all the differing opinions and shit Surprised Surprised

i supra has done about 119,000 kms- the engine is being a little silly at the moment- but nothing drastic, just cosmetic things. its getting a thorough look-over as we speak- ive been driving the ra60 around for a while, while the ma61 is in the mechanics.

to be honest i didnt expect the 7m-gte to be so cheap- i was budgeting more like 4000- but then things always go wrong-

as they may with the 5m-te. but ive got about $250 atm, so by the time i get a diagnosis on my 5m-e (it will prolly be fine) i should have a bit 'o cash, and armed with info (thanks guys) ill be able to do somethingh gwoovy.

thing is, i'd have to pay to get someone to put the 7m-gte in, im a moron under the bonnet- would it be the same case with the 5m/mteu hybrid?

thnaks dudes Very Happy
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Norbie
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Sun, 18 January 2004 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If you're a moron under the bonnet as you claim, the last thing you should be considering is building a hybrid "bitsa" engine!
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Mon, 19 January 2004 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hahah okay- maybe i should rephrase myself...

i've never really done anything mechanical before- pulled off a timing cover, fan, and alternator. needless to say i havent messed anything up either. Very Happy
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draven
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I supported Toymods

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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Mon, 19 January 2004 07:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
take my approach - jump in the deep end and hope for the best Smile

(this coming from the guy whose car is STILL farkin off the road.)
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V8_MA61
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Mon, 19 January 2004 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Think of something about money. For example, you blow your head gasket. ON one of those engines, id only run with a toyota one.

VRS kit for one alone is $627 rrp!!

Dont get yourself into trouble!

If its going to cost you $400 total, which i think is far from the truth, then id say why not...just to see how long itll last!
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MS-75
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Mon, 19 January 2004 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi there mate-I just saw this thread, and thought I'd put my two cents in.

I've built a 5M-MTEU hybrid to 400+hp.

Firstly, If you bolt the mteu manifold to the 5m, you can also use the standard turbo, it does spool up quickly and gives good torque. Yes, it is a bit small in the long run, but is a good starting point.

If you want a cheap setup, mixing and matching the parts together isn't all that cheap in the long run. I could go into detail but won't, most of the above comments are on the money.

Simplest and Cheapest option would be MTEU exhaust manifold, MTEU crossover pipe (no intercooler), MTEU distributor and suck through LPG.

HOWEVER-as someone who has been down this particular road farther than any person should, save your cash and go 1J.

If you've still got questions on building a hybrid though, my email is sgannon@mmal.com.au

Cheers
Sean
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Tue, 20 January 2004 03:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Geting a compleate m-teu i think extra costs would be extreamly small!

really $400 for a turbo setup is tiny you can piss $400 up agenst an ATM after a big night on the drink... a turbo will last longer but may still cause loss of licence Smile

Allan
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Tue, 20 January 2004 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmmmm.. ms-75 has entered the fray... basically what you suggested is what im thinking of doing- the mteu manifold, turbo, crossover pipe (whats that?) and the dizzy, without the LPG. would this make much difference? i'd probably intercool it further down the track as well- because i will upgrade at some stage- i just would like to progressively go there... as gay as it sounds. can i directly bolt the stuff from the m-teu onto the 5m? is there many little fiddly bits like oil drain lines and shit like that? Very Happy

but as for the health of my 5m-e - i got it back today, new bottom radiator tank, new core... new thermostat (mine was rusted and jammed open Confused ) but

there is no more frothyness in the coolant. yippie. now i just gotta find out why its running a bit rich and the backfiring, then turbo plans will get a yay or nay. Evil or Very Mad


EDIT: do i also need to use the m-teu sump???

[Updated on: Tue, 20 January 2004 06:29]

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Celia-Sue
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Tue, 20 January 2004 06:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message

That richness could be caused by a faulty AFM - something you'd definitely want sorted if you are thinking of hanging a turbo off the side.

As for power upgrade options on a MA61, I got a whopping big bank loan so I could go the 1JZ. By the time I pay it off, I'll be ready for the next step (diff, W58, Haltech, cams, turbo/s).
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah, i thought it could be the AFM - as allan thinks that it perhaps had been played with. our mechanic seems to think its okay though.

we're going to take it to toyota, get the exhaust gas checked (richness) and then get them to plug in the ecu and see what error codes come up- that will say whether its the AFM or not, right?

also, the mteu hybrid is still very much on the cards...

can anyone tell me how hard it is to bolt up the manifold, turbo, intake bits, dizzy and sump to the 5me? ie, how hard is it to get running, is there any little wires/cords/leads/lines or any nasty surprises i should consider?

thanks guys, this is helpful plus Very Happy
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the only pain in the ass will be the sump the rest is too easy

Allan
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
allan - nice Very Happy


just out of interest- what is the 5me supposed to be timed at, 10 degrees or 16 as i read somewhere on the net?

cpz i think mine is 10.... not sure...
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STR8 2.8
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 03:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i thought it should be more like 8 for the 20yo 5me
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Steve M
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think I remember finding a M-teu manifold and turbo in a wrecker in Adelaide.
They wanted way to much for it in my opinion, it may still be there though.

City Dismantlers, should be able to find them on the internet.
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John K
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off the subject, I need help putting up pics of my 3SGTE Sprinter, never done it before. I have the pictures saved in "my pictures" but how do i put 'em up. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Allan
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i had mine at about 15 - 20 on lpg, i think its 12 standard

i think ed supprise supprise was runing something insane on his

Allan

Edit: i did have my head shaved for compression tho

[Updated on: Wed, 21 January 2004 04:44]

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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmmm

http://www.aip.com.au/health/lead_guide.htm

that website states 16 degrees standard on Premium unleaded, 14 on ULP. i run premium in the supra the whole time, so would i be best to do that?

i dont really understand timing, so, if someone could explain it, that'd be great.

can you change the timing of your car completely (eg. 10 as opposed to 16 degrees) and it still run smoothly and not "be out of time"? i dont really understand you see, thats why this wouldnt make much sense. is adjusting the timing like this how people tune (advance and retard) engine?

what would it mean if my supra is timed at 10 degrees? for lack of a better word, is it retarded to the max?

thanks y'all.

Ps. just found out today my LSD works fine.... 2 big thick black lines... Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

[Updated on: Wed, 21 January 2004 06:48]

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MS-75
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Looks like you still want the details on the hybrid, so here goes.

1.The heads on the two engines are identical in every way except that the MTEU has smaller intake valves. The exhaust manifold is a straight bolt up.

2. Leave the 5M intake manifold as is, the 5M throttle body is internally larger than the MTEU one.

3. The crossover pipe for the MTEU runs from the turbo to the throttle body across the top of the rocker cover. The advantage in using the stock turbo and crossover pipe to begin with is that it all just directly bolts up. You may want to change it later, but it means that now you don’t have to fabricate a whole heap of crap. (you can always put a cooler in at a later stage)

4. The MTEU has dedicated oil feed and oil drain holes in the block for the turbo so you need to make up feed and drain lines on the 5M (it would be nice to use the MTEU block but you have to bore and sleeve it to get the required bore size) The feed can be tapped off the oil pressure switch hole. Go a hydraulics shop and tell them what you need and they'll do it for 1/4 the price of a performance workshop. The drain needs to be a fitting braised into the sump of the motor above the operating oil level (just make sure it goes up the top of the sump). You'll need to remove the sump from the engine to do this.

6. The 5m fuel press reg and rail is fine, you don't need a malpassi or anything.

5. Remove the 5M dizzy and whack the MTEU one straight in. (hook up the same vacuum lines to it).

6. Swap the MTEU cam and rocker assembly (only do the rocker gear if the MTEU stuff look to be in better nick than the 5M assembly) into the 5M (straight bolt up again).


Once all this is done the hybrid is complete-you can also swap the conrods over (but don’t bother unless you plan on huge HP).

As far as getting it running, it should just fire up again, HOWEVER, it is from here that this thing may get tricky. The problem you'll face is getting satisfactory fuel into the motor once it is on boost. The stock ecu/injectors are unlikely to cope, and you may need to dodgey something up with pressure switches and the cold start injector perhaps to trigger once the boost comes on. Otherwise it may be a long and painful process to get to run decently without changing to a programmable ECU. The reason I mentioned the suck through LPG system is that you can run the engine without the ECU at all. You don’t have to muck about with injectors or a fuel pump, the mixer can be mounted in front of the turbo, the LPG will actually do a good job of intercooling the motor through the crossover pipe, the LPG has a good octane rating, and if you grab a 2nd hand LPG setup it will be really cheap and easy to set up. Note that with this set-up you cant use an intercooler, but with the LPG cooling the air anyway you don't need one so much.

Anyway, hope this helps mate.

Sean
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Evil_Foetus
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Re: 5m-e / m-teu hybrid... Wed, 21 January 2004 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
hmmmmmm.... thats absolutely awesome sean thanks. still a few questions however...

in regard to 6)

do i need to take the head off to get the cam? my reason for asking this silly question is: is the mteu cam different to the 5me cam, or is it just likely to be in better condition? because i was hoping to start off without having to pull off the head, and therefore replace headgaskets and get the head machined- ie money.


in regard to oil drain and feed lines:

can the drain line be put into the sump directly? can i use the mteu sump?

for the feed line, does that go where the oil pressure switch goes- ie could i unplug the oil pressure thing and put the feed line for the turbo in?

because basically i wasnt planning on pulling the motor out- if need be, can the oil lines be put in with the block still in the car? is it possible to do myself?

and regarding insufficient fuel on boost- i read that ed_ma61 used XF falcon injectors in his ma61- would this solve the problem? is the problem bound to occur?

im keeping all this in mind- im really only considering this option because its cheap and ill learn something. my 5me has only done 119,000 kms and as far as i know still runs really well (gotta check everything out first). if i have to pull the head off, take the block into a hydraulics place and play around with injectors or something, then i probably wont do it.

to cut a long story short- im looking at a complete mteu. if i can buy this motor, whack the shit on and let rip, its fine... i may add a few little things later- torqued head gasket, intercooler, exhaust, minor shit like that. im looking at spending about $500. (i have sourced an engine, if need be (dave))

if i have to pay a few hundred more to get the thing running....

then ill have to be paitent and save for the 7m-gte... (its going in eventually anyway)


oh, and is the timing for a 5m-e supposed to be 16 degrees?
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