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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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 Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 04:37
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I know there not sold anymore and even if i could find a kit it would cost more than my car but is there any info on how the kit actually worked?
Oh, i'm talking about the hks twin charger kit for the 4agze.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 05:09
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Fast Fours did an article on it a while ago.
The kit came with a supercharger controller & a ignition timing controller.
The turbo blew through the supercharger into the stock intercooler.
The supercharger controller was tunable so that that the supercharger could be turned off when the turbo built up boost. Changeover was aroudn the 4000rpm mark.
I've seen a custom variation where separate plumbing upto the intercooler (front mount) was used. solenoid controlling two throttle bodies were used to switch between turbo & super. Expect a crapload of plumbing this way though.
I think I may still have these mags at home so PM me an email & I'll scan them & send a copy.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 05:39
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I'm thinking of this for a 1G! 
Funny I was reading a fast fours last night on the crapper and looking at a corolla with a similar conversion and thinking how the hell to you plumb that? And progrssivly could I do it to a 1G  and progressed a little to far to the Twin supercharged,Quad turbo setup (long crap  )
What would the addvantages to this be and what strengthening would the engine need (if any) if it was "on boost" 90% of the time? How would it effect fuel consumption if dyno tuned correctly?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 05:51
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Im sorry fellas, but the sort of 'twin-charging' you're talking about is simply a crap idea and not at all worth the money or headaches in my opinion.
A simple, well sized supercharger or turbocharger setup will yield far better results as well as being cheaper, easier to setup, more efficeint, more powerful and more reliable.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 05:52
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I've looked into it a bit and overseas a few people have them. They say that it is the best of both worlds. They say it has pure exceleration from the minute you put your foot down 
I dont think you would have to do too much to the engine as it would be the same as having a turbo that came on really quick and kept boosting till redline.
I guess it comes down to how much boost do you want to run?
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 06:20
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| Lambolica wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 16:39 |
I'm thinking of this for a 1G!
Funny I was reading a fast fours last night on the crapper and looking at a corolla with a similar conversion and thinking how the hell to you plumb that? And progrssivly could I do it to a 1G and progressed a little to far to the Twin supercharged,Quad turbo setup (long crap )
What would the addvantages to this be and what strengthening would the engine need (if any) if it was "on boost" 90% of the time? How would it effect fuel consumption if dyno tuned correctly?
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Sorry this post was a bit of a brain fart. typed before I thourght. I've got a long way to go about how s/c, turbos work before I start posting. I found it scary that I was thinking of this subject only moments before it was posted by someone else.
Of course Quad turbos is stupid on a 6 cyl, I'll try 6 turbos, 1 per cylinder
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 06:35
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| Lambolica wrote on Fri, 16 January 2004 14:20 |
I'll try 6 turbos, 1 per cylinder
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Been there, thought that, woke up quickly but enjoyed the idea of four glowing little turbine snails on a four cylinder!!! Not to mention the ease of manifold design, construction and equal lengthing!!!
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 08:01
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You MAY have been on the crapper for a while, but it doesn't seem like you got rid of ALL the crap
One thing people rarely try is a PROPERLY set up PD supercharger. Most such setups seem to net minimal power, especially factory efforts like the 4agze. However, with some careful work, a DECENT blower (i.e. not roots!), a lot of though on cams, it's quite possible to put out power that will give the turbo brigade something to think about...
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Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Fri, 16 January 2004 10:40
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Iam running a 4agze twincharger set up in a datsun 1200 racecar,,i made it up using a RB25 turbo blowing into a Sc14 blower .. See the pic beside the post ...I love the power band .,, Yes you can make more power with just a turbo, but you get turbolag .. But its so drivable .. this is due to a very wide torque curve ,,,A torque curve you cant get with a turbo .. it feels like a electric motor on how it makes its power ..
[Updated on: Fri, 16 January 2004 11:04]
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sat, 17 January 2004 04:09
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I've always thought of super & turbo charged engines the same way I think of a twin turbo setup car (ie the old subaru liberty twin turbos).
Basically - a really good single turbocharger does a better job.
Ball bearings, lightweight turbines etc make it impractical to consider twin turbo or turbo/super charging.
Only in extreme circumstances would you be better off down a straight line or on a race track with both super and turbo charger. The Lancia Delta S4 Group B being one example of a pertinent application of turbo and super charging (although they over complicated the design a teeny bit).
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sat, 17 January 2004 06:16
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I guess being different isn't always about being the fastest 
So many people have the same thing these days, I'd like to think i could be different to the rest.
If i can get the power i am after with the twin setup that would be cool.
Do you sacrifice more power with the duel setup Cameron ?
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Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sat, 17 January 2004 10:47
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The reason the twin-charger set up is good is its BIG FAT WIDE FLAT torque curve .. The wider you can get you torque band the More "drivable"the car is ,,This Set up makes over 80%of its Torque at 2500rpm ..Maximum Acceleration is at maximum torque Iam making 200hp @6000rpm at the rear wheels on pump fuel at the moment this enough power for a Car that weighs 770kgs ,Iam not turning the super charger off and By passing the supercharger like the HKS set up so iam loosing Top end horsepower over 6000rpm as the supercharger becomes restrictive in flow and is also drawing HP from the engine .. You need a Turbo which is suitable for a 3ltr motor not a 1.5 ltr and comes alive around 4000 rpm to make this twin charge set up work . You can Not make the same power curve and torque curve with just a Good turbo .. But i feel you could close with a SCREW TYPE SUPERCHARGER as the Roots Type supercharger is inefficient at high RPM so thats why the Turbo take over in the TWIN-CHARGE set up .. I made the system my self and i agree with peoples comments about it being a complex system ..but it was worth the effort ...BUT if you are paying someone to make it,, Forget it as The Research and Development is to expensive to justify.. Just buy a Screw type Blower OPCON or A SPRINTEX , I couldn't afford one other wise i would have went that way ,,
[Updated on: Sat, 17 January 2004 10:51]
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sat, 17 January 2004 12:53
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Hey Cameron,
Any chance you have any photos of your setup or more details on how to make it?
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sat, 17 January 2004 23:02
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Yes I too would like to know all the nitty gritty on your conversion. Can you enlighten us on how you went about it?
Where are you located?
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 02:32
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wouldn't running anti-lag on a turbo car give you a similar result at a fraction of the cost?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 03:31
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I don't know about anti-lag, but a small shot of nitrous (even 25hp or less) would be just as effective if not more so. If you had a well-chosen turbo and tuned the engine management properly, the nitrous would only need to be used very briefly to spool the turbo. If I was really worried about turbo lag, this is the route I'd choose! Turbo lag is overrated though; with suitable gearing it's a non-issue in most circumstances.
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 03:36
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 pity you cant run nitrous legally on the street though... 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 03:44
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Nope, but anti-lag is illegal also and MUCH more conspicuous!
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 03:58
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yeah.
thats the injector and spark before the turbo isnt it? i'm sure i read about it somewhere b4..
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Turbo lag is overrated though; with suitable gearing it's a non-issue in most circumstances.
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i agree.
my turbo spools up around 2700rpm. doesnt feel 'laggy' to me though. i guess it's also how you drive the thing..
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 04:57
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There are several forms of anti-lag. Some of them retard the ignition heaps and make the fuel mixture uber-rich, while others dump fuel directly into the exhaust manifold. All of them are destructive, loud and highly illegal on the street!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 05:09
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the only real reason for the extra hassle and weight of a twin charge setup is to get rid of turbo lag, and have torque at ALL revs (imho). this also means you can run a much larger turbo, and have it kick in earlier, than it otherwise would, since you are making more exhaust gas from the SC.
if you are purely racing, the complexity of having the SC kick in if the turbo came off boost would be a bit tricky, and possibly make car control more difficult. i think a turbo only system would be better where sustained rpm is normal.
for around town tho, when revs are often at idle, and a turbo is likely to be off boost often, an SC will definitely liven things up a lot!!. 80% torque from idle upwards, and THEN the turbo kicks in what could be better???
it also helps if you have a very wide rpm band to work with... if you are sticking less than 6000rpm, you may as well saty SC, but if you wanna wring out the revs, then SC is too inefficient.
so, my ideal setup (for TC) would be SC overspun to give maybe 14-16psi up until 5000rpm, then switch out, and then turbo to kick in (well, progressively while SC is still on) and take it to 8000-9000rpm with around 20+psi....
hmmm, if i ever have a few grand and a few months to spare, might knock one up for the heck of it...
my 2.5c
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 07:55
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There are other factors like under bonnet temperatures that you may want to think about. On top of that, having both the super and turbo charger increases the weight of the vehicle, and alters the weight distribution.
Once you start taking care of all of those details you are talking alot of money, for a very *tiny* increase in acceleration when you are street driving (low revs). On the track you would probably not even get into revs where the super charger would be working (if you used a setup that bypasses the supercharger at higher rpm).
However, there is of course the bragging rights to think about
I just don't see it as very cost effective, that's all! I think you may have too much spare money and spare time
Btw - you really don't want to have the supercharger restricting the turbocharger by not bypassing it.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 09:05
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if i ever wanted some real power outta my 4agze the first thing i would do is get rid of that big restriction on the inlet (read: supercharger), and slap a turbo on. nothing more frustrating when your trying to go fast then when your engine dies in the ass above 5500rpm. well mine does anyway.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Sun, 18 January 2004 09:09
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You muffed that link dude...
This works!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Twin charged 4agzte?
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Mon, 19 January 2004 03:03
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Isnt that the Bandag Bullet i saw that at Summernats one year.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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