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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 09:14
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Has anyone here fitted a smaller brake booster to there Ae86 ?
It just seems to really have no pedal feel, using a different bigger master hasn't changed its feel . So anyone got any ideas what will fit ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 09:16
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i also have this issue
i fear its my pads though hahahaha d'oh 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 09:23
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It not a brake power problem , it just there feel overpowered , and like you could lock them at any speed . Do want to flat spot tyres on the track .. .
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 09:40
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TA22 fit but you have to lengthen the studs on the back of the booster. I have on ein my car now but it is unpainted so i havnt driven it yet. Im also using a starion mc and it fits fine. The length is about the same but the width is smaller.
Brad
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 10:00
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purpleminiep
When you say lengthen the stud , do you mean change them for the sprinter one , or get new stud { not that its a problem } . Is it alot smaller ? I am using a nissan master .
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 10:08
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well what calipers do you have? you need to have a master cylinder bore size suitable to the size of the calipers ie you need the master cylinder the same size as the car the calipers originally came of. and if the brakes lock at any speed that means they are working and you need to learn how to apply them approprately at varying speeds.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 10:18
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I have a very small booster and massive master in the KE70, its the same standard master and booster as the AE86 factory.
If you are just after better "feel" then i wouldnt bother. If you are doing it as part of an overall brake package then you need to carefully match the master and caliper piston pot sizes to get maximum effect.
at the moment i run a R35 twin bore master with a diahatsu applause booster. theres virtually no help from the booster but the master is very urmmm adequate, but there is a lot more pedal force necessary to get the job done. those who have driven Dato 1200's and Ke10/15 corollas will no what i mean as its a similar sort of experience.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 10:24
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EVOSTi
The master is for the brakes on the car , yes it a nissan master and nissan brakes . I just i am more use to driving less booster euro cars . I could be a leverage issue from the pedal . the nissan pedal unit mite not have the same leverage ratio , but then driving a stock ae86 with standard brake it still seems to easy . What do other people think that have upgraded there sprinter braking systems ? when going to bigger masters/brakes .
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Mon, 19 January 2004 10:41
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i bet there are ppl that wish they had your problem 
maybe poke some holes in the hose going to the booster 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 00:48
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IRA11Y
Yer driving a 1200 datto , does build the legs .
"diahatsu applause booster" that sound like quite a conversion , i mite try changing the front calipers to r33 nissan , and possibly a different pad , then see the results . Have you ever driven a Alfa sud you never think you are going to stop because the pedal is so heavy , but you can stop the car dead where you want to stop .
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 07:19
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then my car feels like an alfa LOL
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 07:58
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I just picked up so R33 Type M 4spots for the font of my car, now all i need is the bigger disc, I wanna keep the same stud pattern, any ideas?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 09:26
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Yer which r33 disc ? the 26mm, 28mm , 30mm . which hub are you thinking of trying to mount the disc to ?
r33gts disc 30mm , five stud , calpier cast iron 4 spot . 296mm disc
r33gt disc 28mm , five stud , caliier alloy/iron {most alloy} 296mm disc
r33 non turbo , 28mm , four stud , calpier alloy/iron 280mm disc
twin piston { rare } , single piston normal .
s13 , 24mm or 26mm cannot remember , four stud , alloy/iron
single piston , 280mm disc .
I would search the dba.com.au web site , the non turbo discs are available only through nissan .
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 09:33
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I was going to use the R33 Type calipers and match them to any disc that will fit on my car in the 4 stud, to keep it origianl looking. sort of sleeper. but i got no idea what to look for. what size is the stud pattern 4x114.3 aint it? so if i could a disc from nissan that was vented, i'd by the dba new version, get a cross drilled one. i want the disc to be 280mm or bigger, i figre that should pull up a 920kg car no worries.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 10:25
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you sure 280 is big enuf?? i use 280mm on my rears
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Tue, 20 January 2004 20:03
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Good to see someone else with 280mm rears , Most of the nissan disc do not come in cross drilled from dba , not a problem just get them drilled after , The problem is the spacing of the disc vs toyota hubs , and centre hole size 68mm . Sprinterboy , which caliper is it ? and which hub/strut .
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 04:04
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just a thought, but could you fit a restrictor (a fairly restrictive one) in the vacuum line that goes from the nlet manifold to the brake booster? would this help?
or have a T-piece in the inlet manifold to booster line and let it draw some air from before the throttle, so the effect isnt so strong
mind you this would most likely result in lean running and general idling problems.
i think on a race car, i would almost go boosterless, the civic i am driving now has unboosted brakes, and seems alright, didnt take too long to get used to it, have you tried blocking the vacuum line and driving it like that?
good luck!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 04:30
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Yes shinybluesteel , i would be nice to go to a boosterless system , with a twin master system so the front / rear bias can be adjusted . But i don't think you could have that road legal ? Yes disconneting it would play hell with a turbo engine . And its a bit dead with booster disconnected / blocked .
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 04:36
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i "think" as in, im pretty sure i have heard it from somewhere that you can have adjustable bias as long as it isn't adjustable while you are driving, to stop you doing linelockers and other such hoon stuff.
check up with your local vicroads/whatever
i didn't know your car was road registered, but i may be confusing you with someone else, do you race improved production?
is your engine turbo? that would be interesting, i have heard so many conflicting stories about boosted AE86s.
how long did you drive it for with the booster line blocked? my mate's civic felt like shit for the first few days, now it is fine. i'm dreading stepping back into a car with boosted brakes.
oh yeah, this may be of interest to you, an AE86 does not require a catalytic converter (in victoria at least) i'm looking forward to designing my new exhaust system for the 4age now.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 January 2004 04:38]
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 05:06
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i thought that would plenty. my mate just spent 4,200 on a set of brembo's that are 350mm with 4pots. thats on a supra and they is huge! he needed 18in wheels to cover it all. and stock there like 260ish, so i figure my are 240 stock so 300 and below would be beaut. have you heard otherwise, coz i am keen to spend the money thats no problem i just want a good set up for street/circut. I wanna out brake the supra.lol
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 06:08
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rear bias can be adjusted
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there are cheaper ways to set up brake bias than individual pots 
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 06:13
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oh and because sprinters were made in the prior to 1985 bracket there is no restriction on exhaust set up except it must not exceed 95dB @ 3500rpm
I run 2.5" extractors with 2" and the only restrictor in the whole system is a 1 3/4" dogleg straight thru muffler at the very end.
most people complain that it sounds too raspy, but i love it, quite when crusing and barky over 5Krpm
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 10:09
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if you put a 4age or similar engine into a ae86 it will need a catalytic converter as they came with one in all cars they were used in. if you put a ge into an ae86 it will need an engineers, to get an engineers you will need an imissions test by the rts which will most definately fail if you donnot have a cat.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Wed, 21 January 2004 10:28
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need an imissions test by the rts which will most definately fail if you donnot have a cat
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ermm i dont think so.... it only has to meet or better the factory engine emissions.. i.e the 4AC, the 4AGE shits all over the 4AC emissions wise with or without a cat.
As for engineering , well its disputeable, some will say it does others say it doesent need to be engineered. but based on the 30% over capacity (NA) it doesent, and im not sure if the power to weight ratio is affected enough either. Id have to re-read the ADR's again as ive forgotten the exact spec.
the guy that did my exhaust had just bought his business.. previous to that he was an engineering inspector for the RTA, when a moron cop defected me for my exhaust being too loud , it took it back to him and he helped me to disprove the cops testing procedure and get a refund of my expenses. so i sorta have to trust that he knows what hes talking about re the exhaust system... and when i asked he said... "no cat needed, its pre 1985"
when the car was retested for the defect... it passed easily. 20dB under maximum allowable and 40% under maximum emmissions ( wish i could remeber the emmissions figures  )
everybody has there own set of rules i guess 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Smaller Brake booster for ae86 ....
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Thu, 22 January 2004 00:38
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shinybluesteel
"i "think" as in, im pretty sure i have heard it from somewhere that you can have adjustable bias as long as it isn't adjustable while you are driving, to stop you doing linelockers and other such hoon stuff."
Yer that come be true , will have to check , if that is the case , i will just add a adjustable one next to the master .
"is your engine turbo? that would be interesting, i have heard so many conflicting stories about boosted AE86s."
No going back now ,just look at the picture , to later now . thats for sure , have been in some very quick n/a sprinters which have 200+hp , and sorry there just don't compare to a turbo car . Maybe my friend v8 lexus spirnter will be as quick , have to see.
"oh yeah, this may be of interest to you, an AE86 does not
require a catalytic converter (in victoria at least) i'm looking forward to designing my new exhaust system for the 4age now."
Does if the engine is originally fitted with one ,as told when engineering the car , thats ok just bolt a pipe piece when at the track . a 3" good brand cat doesn't really slow the car to much anyway .
But after all that , since theres seems to be only IRA11Y's suggestion of a different booster , i think i will still see what happens with a different front brake set up , that will hopefully be less weight than the four spots , with a greater pad/disc area too.
Thanks Everbody ...
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