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Location:
canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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quad throttle bodies
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Wed, 28 January 2004 13:07
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either 43 or 46 mm must have three sets for my latest project involving my quad cam V12(jaguar).
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Wed, 28 January 2004 13:13
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john... stop the press...
i want every detail you can throw at me on what youre building  (damn i need a dribble smiley)
im considering a m70 / m71 SOHC v12 build (sshhhhh) and would LOVE to know what youre up to 
and PS - where in gods name did you get a quad cam???!!!
cheers
ed
PS - no throttle bodies - but ive been looking at the 45mm bmw r1100 (i think) throttles lately, and they seem quite good - but youve got to find a lot of them)
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Wed, 28 January 2004 13:15
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obviously needs a nifty way of attaching a manifold plate, but doable, and available.... and bang on 45mm
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Thu, 29 January 2004 09:51
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dear ed
the car i have is a replica of the famous jaguar xj13 a mid engined v12. my car currently runs a sohc 5.3 with 6 webbers.
i just got a set of 1uad cams for the engine and need this syuff to run fuel injection.
when finished this dohc will replace the sohc, my engine is dry sumped and currently pulls 90 mph in second gear with 3 more gears to go . call on on my mobile tomorrow 0417230074
regards
john wilson
rta engineering signatory
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Thu, 29 January 2004 11:26
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no words can begin to help me here....
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Thu, 29 January 2004 11:53
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ill ring you tomorrow 
and fwiw: (though youre likely to be way ahead of me on this one) this is the fruits of the research i did a while back on the heron flat head combustion design...
please tell me youre not using the fireball heads!
ALSO
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/pp02.htm
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/cflow.htm
http://www2.gol.com/users/tube/essex.html
http://www.classicjaguar.com/leeder.html
V12
43.5mm Inlet. Uses throated standard seat
36mm Exhaust. Uses throated standard seat
Dear Mr Lambertini,
I have two questions for you. I would like to know why you decided to adopt the Heron chamber in designing the Morini modular engine.
I don't remember similar solutions in motorcycling (maybe the Lotus F1 in the 60's?); the design of the head is much more simple in this way, but the piston is complex and heavy.
I would also like to have more information about the 500 Turbo.
I was a student in Engineering at the time and I was lucky enough, thanks to a friend of mine who was a Morini dealer, to visit the R&D section of the factory in Via Bergami, Bologna. Here technicians were preparing a dirt bike for the Paris-Dakar rally, but I was attracted by the Turbo: it was there, disassembled (but it was possible to see an impressive heat protection under the saddle) and without its beautiful fairing.
I could also talk to a tester. He told me that the bike was very fast, but difficult to manage on the wet, because of the turbo output.
I would probably have bought that bike and so I was very interested.
Could you please briefly explain what the real problems of that prototype were?
Thank you and best regards
Piero Ligorio
ANSWER
Heron combustion chamber.
This is what the management of Moto Morini asked in developing a new engine: "Engine multiple use, to be mounted on different types of vehicles, with a capacity from 125 cc to 250 cc at first, then 350 cc and finally 500 cc; better performance than the rivals, giving more importance to torque and lowest consumption; simple and compact design, at the same time giving an impression of strength; maximum application of the principle: 'what is not there cannot be broken and does not cost anything'; limited production cost; easy industrialisation, as to best reduce investments".
It was of course not easy to develop such a project, putting together such contrasting principles.
In this situation it was immediately clear that the best shape for the combustion chamber was the Heron one.
The design of the combustion chamber had valves put perpendicular to the head plane: this allowed low investment costs for operating machines and low production cost, as the different phases to complete the head were faster. Operating or transfer machines we were going to use were dedicated to the specific project, not at all flexible. Today we would use digital control machines: another world!
The position of the valves was misaligned in respect of the centerline of the cylinder, so that we could put the plug near the centre of the head, making the combustion easier.
The turbulence of the charging was increased by the wide rolling sections on the piston and the "heart" shape of the chamber conveyed a great part of the fresh oil mixture near the plug, thus making the spark and spark advance of the front of the flame easier.
This type of combustion chamber, combined with a specific design of the piston hollow, bear high compression ratios (10,8-12:1, while the other engines of the same time had 9,5-10,8:1).
On the other hand the combustion was a bit harsh, the piston was heavier, thus making it more difficult to eliminate vibrations, the top of the piston had a higher temperature, so that the working clearance between barrel and cold piston was increased and the engine became noisier.
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Thu, 29 January 2004 20:04
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dear ed
that is not my car
mine is a lot better but running webbers not fuel injection what is what i am about now
regards
john wilson
rta engineering signatory
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Location:
Redbank Plains,near Ipswi...
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Thu, 29 January 2004 20:43
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John, Motec used to make some generic throttle bodies. I have a set of 4 on a race car. Also, Phil Ryall in Sydney I believe modifes the Toyota 4AG-20valve ones out to close to 50mm, so I have been told. I can photo a stock set of these if it helps you/ I've done a few things like you project in the years past. Good luck and great project. PS., I've seen what I understand was the real XJ13 at a demo day at Donnington UK. I may be able to dig out the pics if it helps.
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Fri, 30 January 2004 10:02
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dear phil
i picked up a set today in sydney 4AGE/20 valve etc they look just perfect and i have ordered another 2 sets
re the original xj13 i have lots of photographs of it both in the uk and in australia
regards
john wilson
rta engineering signatory
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Fri, 30 January 2004 10:16
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john,
im still at work 
apologies for not getting a chance to call you today
cheers
ed
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Location:
canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Sat, 31 January 2004 07:55
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ok
picked up a set of quad throttle bodies tried them, now i need 3 sets more
regards
john wilson
rta engineering signatory
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Sat, 31 January 2004 08:24
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john toyospares have a set of silver top throttles for sale there number is 03 97203177
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Ademelaide, SA
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: quad throttle bodies
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Mon, 02 February 2004 13:03
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i have a set of quad throttle bodies off a 4age 20v for sale, if you're still interested.
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