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Registered:
June 2002
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Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Mon, 02 February 2004 23:12
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Thinking about using the RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86 with skyline 4 pinion 28 spline BW LSD. As per tech article. Apparently a bolt in?
Other option is F series MKII (corona)with RT141 disc brakes and MA61 LSD. But this requires more mucking around (changing mounts and butchering 3 X rear ends)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Mon, 02 February 2004 23:46
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Has anyone actually put an MA61 LSD in an F series live axle? I ask because I've heard rumours it doesn't fit in the housing... I hope that's not the case because I already have a MkII diff and an MA61 LSD and I was hoping to combine the two!
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Mon, 02 February 2004 23:52
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Hmm me too Norbie.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 00:35
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Good point. If this is the case maybe the RT141 is the way to go. Come on norbie give it a go.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 00:43
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so anyones pro opinion on the 1st topic???
cause r31 diffs are hard to find any other options besides hilux diffs
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 01:47
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Hi
MA61 LSD into F series - well yes it can be done by using the LSD hemisphere witrh the original F series crown and pinion. I can reassure you that this can be done as my car has been tripping around for the past year with a MK 2 diff with a MA61 hemisphere and RT141 disc brakes.
Craig
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 01:50
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Excellent, that's great news! 
My RA23 is currently off the road for an engine rebuild, so I'll probably do the diff conversion at the same time. I'll let you all know how it goes.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 02:13
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Good news
Any opinons of the BW (RT141) diff
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 02:25
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Not too sure about the centre but the RT141 axles ain't as strong as T series axles.
The RT141 brakes because of the internal drum handbrake are fairly trouble free and easy to work on. They also have a fairly large diameter disk. On the down side the pads are really small but it is only doing say 30% of the work that the front brakes are doing.
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 09:00
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very interested on info about the RT141 diff into AE86
just read the article about it
rt141 have the same stud pattern as a 86?
anyone done this?
putting it simply if i took my complete diff out would a rt141 diff fit in place with everything hooked up (springs, shocks, panard rod...) just modify the hbrake cable and brake line and add a bias adjuster using the rt141 axels ....?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 09:46
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| Norbie wrote on Tue, 03 February 2004 12:50 |
My RA23 is currently off the road for an engine rebuild
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Just as well Norbie - if you'd left it as usual on your front lawn, that branch could have done some damage after last Friday's storm ...
Just something I noticed on the bus on the way back is all ...
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Location:
Melbourne, AUS
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 10:23
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Im sorry to be ignorant but what article is everyone talking about this diff conversion, id like a read plz
...and yes ill let you know when i find it on my own :/
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 10:43
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Rear Disc Brake Conversion on 23/28
<< in the Articles section <<
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 20:21
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craig can this mark 2 diff, ma61 lsd and rt141 disk brake setup be used on a ae86??? how hard is it to find a mark2 diff do u know what model?
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 22:07
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FlogBag,
I would like to know the same, It may be week in standard form but with 28 spline shafts and a 4 pinon LSD (still avalable new) I would think it should handle a resonable amount of power. Considering the VL turbos use it with a 2 pinon LSD.
If this is a direct bolt in as the article suggest I think it would make a good upgrade. Factors that need to be looked at are
1. Weight compared to a F series diff
2. Does it just bolt in
3. Price of LSD compared to F series
I don't think the change is a wise upgrade without changing the splines and centre. But heh put it in blow it up its a good excuse to upgrade this diff further at that stage. With the added advantage of stud pattern and rear disc in the mean time. May have to do some further investigation at pick a part with a measuring tape.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 23:03
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| Dodgy_Haro wrote on Tue, 03 February 2004 19:46 |
Just as well Norbie - if you'd left it as usual on your front lawn, that branch could have done some damage after last Friday's storm ...
Just something I noticed on the bus on the way back is all ...
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Eeek! They're watching me!
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 03 February 2004 23:13
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Is the RT141 diff the same size as the VL diff??? I am sure when I pulled the axles out of the RT141 they were tiny. I wouldn't want to put them behind an RB30.
Does the RT diff actually bolt into the sprinter mounts or is this a misleading roumour?? I am very surprised if they share the same mount locations.
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 01:08
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Lots of questions.
I understand that the rt141 pick points are the same as an AE86 and it is a bolt in. I have not done it so you would be advised to measure first.
The BW centre in the the rt141 is weaker than a t series and the axles are like straws. As for the top response I have not actually done this but I understand the axles from a Skyline Silhouette are the same length (and 4 stud) and these come with a 4 pinion LSD. The VL axles are obviously too long and the lsd in the v8 and the turbo is only 2 pinion.
The mk2 corona diff I got was off a mx23 but they are around in various forms from the early 70s 'til about 77. $50-100 should get you one.
Will a mk2 diff fit in an AE86 - yes
Craig
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 01:10
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i dont think the rt diff is a bolt on, you'd have to customize it to fit but that with any other diff anyway
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Location:
PNG
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 04:16
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sprinterboy4agz
Not sure that don't thinks are really meaningful to anyone. I have had the two alongside each other and run my tape over them. I would not have said that I believed they were a boltup if I had not done some checking. What I have said is - do your own check as it is not a conversion that I have actually done this conversion.
phew got that off my chest.
Everyone else
Now onto another thing that came to mind. There was a 2 door sigma - called a Scorpion that has the BW diff. It is defininely the right width and it is a LSD (am not sure whether it has the 2 or 4 pinion diff as I have seen both) and it is disc brake. These are real cheap but you would have to have the suspension pickup point transfered for you t series diff.
Of further interest the disc brakes on the rt141, vl and scorpion are all the same. The vl just used a 5 stud rotor. Of further interest new 4 stud rotors are $65 and 5 stud $45.
Craig
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 04:30
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Am I correct in saying the MKII F series diff housing will NOT bolt into a RA28 (originally T series diff), without moving pickup points?
Sorry I'm bit confused as i'm getting the impression from Ddeane that is has the mounting points already in the correct position? Though I have a MKII diff at home and doesn't look anything like a direct bolt in.
Cheers
Joel
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 04:32
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ddeane,
Thanks for the information. Will have to check if the 28 spline axles and LSD from the skyline fit.
Any idea of the size of the scorpion axels?
Roger
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 04:50
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Don't worry Joel, He is talking about putting the RT141 diff into the sprinter.
Regardless of how much you push and shove the MX23 diff, it doesn't have any spring seats so it won't go into a RA28
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 04:56
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so what would be the best option in terms of power handling?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 05:41
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I've never actually seen an RT141 diff pulled apart, but from what has been said the F series is the way to go for power handling. Considering the F diff in my Supra is doing a fine job of handling the torque of a boosted 2JZ, it's fair to say the diff centre at least is very strong.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 10:28
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this is starting to get confusing so when someone works out the formula for a diff that bolts stright into a sprinter, has LSD, disc brakes, same stud pattern and can handle heaps of power lemme know. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 10:40
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I think if such a thing existed everyone would have one by now!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 10:53
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I saved this info from the old toymods forum, can we still access it?
i've got so much sprinter stuff saved on my pc it's not funny
sprinter addiction??
I'll post it here
copyright blah blah
knowledge is wealth, share the wealth
I also remember something about the corona diff being a BW 23 spline, and LSD's are rare, maybe never existed.
dodgydan
-------------------------------------------------- --------------
buckley
Fast Newbie
Posts: 63
Corona Avante RT142 posted August 31, 2001 09:31 PM Edited By: buckley on 31 Aug 2001 21:32
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------
Ill reply with an email i sent to Sam:
"Firstly, the diff was not a straigh bolt-in. That wasnt what i was after as a straight bolt in wouldnt have the strength that i require.
There are 10 main connections between a solid rear axle and the chassis.
Four lateral links: two long arms connecting below the diff and two short ones above. These bolted up without any hassles at all.
Driveshaft: at first inspection, the 4 bolt pattern appeared to be the same, but when checked side by side the sprinter diff had a rectangular shape, and the new diff had a square shape, ie two bolts lined up and two were just out. I had two choices, weld closed and redrill the two holes that are out OR drill four new holes, which i did. the bolts im referring to are the four short nut and bolt combos that connect the universal joint in the drive shaft to the diff.
Panhard Rod: Had to be lengthened by 35mm. Was hacksawed and a sleeve 60mm long was slid over and welded in place. Subsequently ground down and painted black.
Shock Mounts: the two lower shock absorber mount were too close to each wheel, the shock angle in a corona is much more than in a sprinter, as such the lower part of the shocks were colliding with the brake calpers. I simply redrilled and installed new bolts in a far better position for the shock mounts.
Spring Seats: the spring seat were designed for slightly smaller diametre springs. Choices were to either get custom springs made, grind off the springs seats and swap them from axle to axle or use existing springs but drill small holes in the seats and use thin wire to tie them into place. as of yet im just letting the springs sit in the smaller seats to see if they pop out, havent so far.
The track is actually a little wider, possibly 8 to 10mm. the rear wheels still fit perfectly in the guards.
And thats it. the install took me a weekend of on and off work on the car. Doing it again would take me less than 3 hours.
Ill take some pictures and post them on Toymods. The brakes are huge, easly larger than the stock 4ac front discs, and the diff is a BorgWarner Single Spinner and there are LSD centres available, just need to find the cheapest alternative."
Thats the extent of it. The image i posted of the driveshaft flange has four extra holes drilled in it, those are the old holes.
Also the shock mount had to be modified, see below pic.
the entire rear axle was changed for a Corona Unit, not just the rear drums for discs.
This was the most unusual part of the conversion.
Rear axle from a Corona.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 20:50
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sorry if i sound stupid but i dont see why you'd want a rt diff in your sprinter, if ppl r saying its weaker then the standard on then why would u want one for is it for the brakes???
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 21:19
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It is weaker than the Japanese T series diff. I havn't looked at the Aus spec S series sprinter diff though. By the sounds of things, the VL turbo diff is a different size and it is unlikely that its LSD will bolt in the RT housing.
If you want a bolt in upgrade for an aus spec sprinter then a Jap spec T series diff is the way to go. Jamie is supposedly using one behind his V8 turbo celica with some success. I have heard that it has needed a few rebuilds though.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 21:37
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to my understanding i think the MK 2 diff with a MA61 hemisphere and RT141 disc brakes would be the way to go, unless i can find a skyline silo diff
how hard is it to find a ma61 lsd? and mk2 diffs?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 04 February 2004 21:50
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The Mk 2 (MX23) corona diffs are pretty easy to come by. Some of these corona's came with a Borg Warner diff, so check before buying.
LSD's for the F series diff are available new and aftermarket. They were standard equipment in MA61's, some Cressidas and in some of the Hilux front diffs. Norbie is using a truetrack in his Supra and it seems to be the a good thing.
Don't forget that this is still a custom install and will require all the brackets moved. But it is definitly a lot stronger than both the Jap and Aus spec sprinter diffs. If you can weld, you could probably do all the work yourself and install a brand new LSD for the price of a second hand Jap spec LSD sprinter diff.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Thu, 26 February 2004 23:20
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Well I must apologise for some incorrect information I gave earlier.
I measured up some axles yesterday and found the following
RA28 RT141 MX23
T Series Borg Warner F Series
Spline:-
Minor Diameter 22mm 23.2mm 23.2mm
Major Diameter 23.6mm 25mm 25mm
Number of Splines 23 23 23
Min Axle Dia. 23mm 24mm 24.3mm
As you can see, the axles for the F series and RT corona diffs are the same. So axle strength should be the same given the same material and only slightly stronger than the T series.
The F series centre is a lot stronger than the T series though. Can't comment on the BW cos I don't have one, only the axles.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Fri, 27 February 2004 00:59
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well now that IS interesting.
i suspect my celica diff in my TA22 is a D series - its not identified by a plate or anything...
rather than the conversion i might just change the flange on my tailshaft and throw the corona job in there
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Fri, 27 February 2004 01:12
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It'll take a pretty good "throw" to get it in.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Fri, 27 February 2004 05:53
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gold28 am told that the suspension mounting points for the upper and lower control arms are the same - so should just go in place in theory...
i'll measure up and report back
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Thu, 29 July 2004 10:37
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grega
eva check up on the corona rear into the ta22? how goes it?
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Fri, 30 July 2004 00:17
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I'm gonn have to apologise for an earlier post. It looks like the F series diff that I was referring to earlier wasn't actually an F but an E series. Not only that but it is an E series that I have converted to fit into my celica. Not happy about that 
Anyhow, the E series has roughly the same size axles as the RT corona.
The F series I am told is bigger again.
Sorry
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Fri, 30 July 2004 09:04
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any measurements on a 84 st141 corona sedan rear?
had a look at one at the wreckers the other day (after i swore a blue streak because the only mk2 corona they had , rear was already pinched) and the setup looks pretty well ie trailing arms etc but how much bigger / smaller than the ta22 is it?
Cheers
Nathan
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 29 December 2004 00:50
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bump
/flame suit on/
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 29 December 2004 10:41
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is the 28 spline borg warner lsd a cone type lsd? i bought one from a commodore at the wreckers and im told it will fit in to an r31 skyline rear end? is the cone type diff any good?
the jap spec sprinter diffs are rubbish, the same lsd came in the irish/english spec corolla gt coupes (ae86) and they have two plannet gears on a stupid cast clutch pack with 4 springs, the clutch pack always breaks at the pins for the plannet gears and they crack near the springs and the clutch pack can move sideways in the diff and slowly destroy the pinion as it turns.
the half shafts are a joke too the ends just snap off if you have a 4agze.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Wed, 29 December 2004 12:00
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ive been told by a skline nutter (me mate) that the early skyline (r31 / pintara's) are a m78 borg warner diff. Apparently same type as vn,vp,vs commodores.
So one would only assume that the two have interchangeable parts.
One thing i do know is there is a LSD and non-LSD housing in the m78. And although the LSD centre will fit into a non-LSD housing the axles from a LSD housing setup will only fit. As in the non-LSD axles wont fit to a LSD.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Nathan
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Thu, 30 December 2004 11:01
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thanks for the info.
i pulled some axles from pintaras and skylines a few weeks ago at the wreckers and found that pintaras have 23 splines and that skylines have 28 splines and the non lsd 28 spline shafts do fit in to the commodore lsd because i brought my lsd with me to make sure, the wreakers only want 160 bucks for the r31 skyline rear end disk to disk! just have to wait for em to open up again after the hollidays.
the diff shop say not to get a 3.89 ratio as they are more troublesome than the 3.9 or 4.1.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Thu, 30 December 2004 12:23
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there ya go
proof that my mates all talk shit. 
not that i didnt know that
what do ya reckon a rough cost on having the skyline diff shortened would be ?
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Sat, 01 January 2005 03:46
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they tell me its 165 bucks to shorten and respline each half shaft. i can shorten the housing myself at work.
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Mon, 03 January 2005 07:52
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So lets see if I understand all this correctly, The RT141 Corona diff housing will bolt into an AE86 with some modification to the shock mount, panhard rod and diff flange. Then the R31 Skyline LSD center and axels will go into the RT141 housing.
So if you have an RT141 diff, R31 Skyline LSD diff, a weekend and some head scratching you end up with a strong disk braked diff in the back of your 86?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Mon, 03 January 2005 10:31
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im pretty surre their not interchangable.
the rt141 diff pluss parts off of a avante give you the disc brake lsd capable rear end.
the skyline diff swap is a seperate method to the same goal.
Cheers
Nathan
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
ireland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Peoples opinon on RT141 disc brake rear end in AE86
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Tue, 04 January 2005 10:48
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what ratio is the rt141 corona diff?
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