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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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 stroking a 4agze
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Tue, 24 February 2004 04:29
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What crank do you need to stroke a 4agze 1.8l? Is it the seca rv one?
What else will i need for the conversion?
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Tue, 24 February 2004 11:02
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 normaly people will use a 7AF-E engine like this set-up to make a 1.8 ltr AW11.
how i wouldnt mind that engine in mine... 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Tue, 24 February 2004 11:31
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My only question is, why do you particularly WANT to stroke a 4agze? I'm somehow doubting you're going to really gain a great deal from an engine that's already difficult to get a big top end out of. If it were turbocharged, that MAY change the story somewhat (and I say MAY, not will!)
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agte
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Tue, 24 February 2004 20:35
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Its actually a 4agte.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agte
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Tue, 24 February 2004 20:59
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Hey Fearal,
Do you have to use that block or can you put that crank in a 4ag block?
That engine would be nice  But seeing i already have the 4agze  I'll have to stick with it.
It's all good
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agte
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Tue, 24 February 2004 21:06
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i did read years ago about a 2 liter stroker kit for the 4age that was in America. cant remember if it was HK$ or not though, but i do rememeber that it cost an arm and a leg..
as far as i seen on people that have done that engine build, they all used the 7af-e block. it already a 1.8 ltr.
you dont need to stroke the 4agte anyways, it'll give you plenty of fun in it's 1.6 ltr size... 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agte
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Wed, 25 February 2004 00:38
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I'd say the 7A block has a higher deck height than the 4A, which means to use the 7A crank and/or rods in a 4A block would require new pistons with an altered pin height and block clearancing - a major head fuck unless you want to buy custom pistons to your own design. Having said that, I've been following your "I want mega horsepower to beat my mate" thinking so go forth and shred money!!! You'll also probably find you'll need to strengthen the crank, rods and pistons, to make the 180RWKW you want too?!!?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 01:44
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Albeit, you sound like you know what your on about which is fair enough but EVERY TIME you respond to a question that i ask you bring with you such a negative vibe. Such a hate for the fact that i would like to build a dream that i have had for a long time.
WHY man???? 
To you it's all about wasting the money! It's a hobby dude. They all cost money?!?
You need to relax a bit and lightn up
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 01:51
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Oh yeah, Thanks feral.
For the cost of that kit it would have been easier to put the 3sgte in 
hhhmmmmmmm?...........nah 
Maybe next time round
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 02:00
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the 7a block is taller... here's an extract from the MR2 mailing list a while ago...
| Quote: |
From: "Erik Berg" Erik_Berg@qmail4.nba.TRW.COM
Subject: Re: 4AGE/7AFE mod.
Scott Davis wrote:
Here's my question. Would it make any sense to take the crank out of a
7A-FE motor, or the rods, or both, and put them into the 4A-GE as a sort
of a "stroker kit?"
It might have been a darned good idea, except that I think it would be
physically impossible.
First of all, I think it unlikely that you could fit a crank with that long of a
stroke in a 4AGE block, without hitting things. We're talking an 8.5mm stroke
difference here, and the biggest stroker crank I've ever heard of for a 4AGE
has only a 7mm increase.
According to Mike Dowe, the rod journal on the 7AFE crank is larger, by
8mm. Also, Justin Timbrell told us (thanks for all the great data, Justin!):
To answer a previous question. The crank on the 7AFE has larger
diameters
By which I think he meant that *both* the rod and main journals are bigger.
True, Justin? OK, assuming the mains are different sizes, 'nuff said about
a crank swap. It ain't gonna happen, without spending more machining
dollars than it would probably be worth.
Next issue: deck height, compared to the compression height.
Toyota made the deck taller on the 7AFE, for a good reason!
Here's some comparison data (all in mm):
7AFE 4AGE
rod length 132.5 122
crank throw 42.75 38.5
stroke 85.5 77
OK, now, what is the difference between the compression height of a stock
4AGE and that of a stock 7AFE? Assuming the same piston in the 4AGE and
the 7AFE (which it isn't, but I suspect that is a minor deal...) it would be the
difference in the rod length plus the difference in the crank throw. In other
words:
Difference in compression height = (132.5 - 122) + (42.75 - 38.5) = 14.75mm
So, if you were actually able to stuff a 7AF crank and rods into a 4AG block,
the piston would probably stand proud of the deck by about 13 to 14mm
(half an inch-ish). Not a happy deal!
I still think the hot ticket would be to do exactly what Justin did... plop a
4AGE head on the 7A block.
Just for grins, what is Justin's CR? Can we calculate it, from the data I've
dredged up here?
I'm not sure exactly what the deck heights of the blocks are, but I'm pretty
sure they are *different* by 15.4mm. Ass-u-me-ing that to be correct, and
that Justin's original CR was 10:1 as he reported, I'm getting a result that the
chamber volume difference, with the same piston, would be 3.35cc (larger
volume for the 7AGE, compared to the 4AGE).
The total chamber volume for the 4AGE with a 10:1 CR, would be 44cc. The
total chamber volume for the 7AGE would then be 44cc + 3.35cc = 47.35cc
and therefore the CR would be..... about 10.3:1.
Well, is this correct? Can anyone find any errors in these calculations?
By the way, Justin you also wrote:
You might be wondering what happened when I turned the key the first
time ..... well unfortunately it started first time no problems and hasn't
skipped a beat since .... how boring !!!
"Unfortunately"?! Hey, that kind of bordom I could live with!
Regards,
Erik Berg
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The 7a uses a 20mm press fit gudgeon pin, the aftermarket 7a rods use a 20mm floating gudgeon pin. If you use the stock rods (ok for NA but not recommended for FI) then you can press fit the pin, with the aftermarket eagle/crower rods the gudgeon pin fits the same as the 20mm 4a rods.
You may want to dowel the crank and flywheel to add a bit more strength as the 7a uses a 6-bolt flywheel
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 02:29
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Thanks man
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 02:49
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| fatmr2 wrote on Wed, 25 February 2004 09:44 |
Albeit, you sound like you know what your on about which is fair enough but EVERY TIME you respond to a question that i ask you bring with you such a negative vibe. Such a hate for the fact that i would like to build a dream that i have had for a long time.
WHY man????
To you it's all about wasting the money! It's a hobby dude. They all cost money?!?
You need to relax a bit and lightn up
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Yep i agree I take your suppositions lightly, and I suppose this is because I've been around cars a long time and seen alot of builds. Personally I think what has now climbed to 200rwkw, is ludicrous in such a light car, and I'll happily admit to having a dislike for and dyno queens too. I think you're thinking to your application is very much from a younger point of view, and not thought out logically, unless your only aim is to beat your brother on the dyno. We have dyno queens here in Perth too, and I can tell you they very rarely make it onto the street, not because they are worried about being defeacted there and then, but because their motors are only set up to do one thing - pull the highest figure possible on a dyno. Many of the guys competeing in such competitions are often asked what their motors will make, their general answer is: "lots or nothing" due to so many of them pushing a ragged edge.
I've also read you intend doing all the work yourself, however have fears of similar questions should you come to use a stroker crank. Yes I agree the "tech and conversion" section of the forums is a good place to learn, however you will get better infomation by asking questions to proven performers. I don't really understand why you want to stroke the motor, you'll be moving the performance from it's sweet spot on a 4A - revs (a stroked motor will work harder to pull the same revs as a standard stroke motor), and to make the package reliable as you've previously stated, it will cost more than the crank, rods, and pistons, ask around?!
Maximum performance is not about maximum power. I have a car only putting out 100rwkw, but somehow think I'd be more competitve than your's in most situations. I appologise to you if you feel I've offended you. I do look forward to seeing you build your project, however am thankful I'm not paying for it. I think there would be better areas of your car to spend the money you'll need to spend on your motor.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 03:34
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hhhhmmmmmmmm?
i'll explain it to you like this and you tell me your thoughts then........
For example: My bro's car. Cappuccino. It has everything imaginable done to it from top to bottom which has made it the most powerful one in AUS. It runs 1.5 bar all the time and puts out 104.5 kwatw. He doesnt de tune it to drive it on the road. The settings stay the same all the time. He has pushed the motor to just about as far as you would want to go yet it is a car that can be taken out of thr garage and driven like any other car ( The clutch is a little hard on the hill starts as its semi button and if you floor it all the time it uses the juice ) But other than that it's still street friendly with loads of performance.
I aim to build something very similar. I figured if it could be done to his then it could be done to mine. I WOULD like to sqeeze the little 4agte for all its worth and make it very powerfull yet have the same drivability as the cap. If i wanted a dyno car i would stick a T3/T4 onto it yet i am going with a gt28.
What i am trying to achieve isnt too hard as the fastest AW11 in Aus (bens car) has something like 245rwkw and last i heard it did 11.77. I have gone to see him a few times about the build and even had the chance to buy the whole driveline out of his car yet i wanted to do it myself. He drives his car to work everyday with no problems. This is why i just didnt understand why you think that it was such a high goal.
I'm pretty sure i will never need this much power on a normal day to day basis on sydneys roads as many people have already pointed out.
But hey..........At the end of the day, i can turn around and have something that i reackon is just the coolest, something that i did just for the sake of it. Your only young once! I might as well be a dickhead while i still have the chance cause one day I'LL be saying "Why would you want to go that fast" and by then it will be too late.
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 09:33
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i am sure with the right engine management and tuning i can get 200 rwhp out of my current intrim 4agte. but i dont know how reliable it would be given i am useing my old 4age i rebuilt, with cast pistons and thicker head gaskets (i know, bit bodgy)
but when i rebuild my blown up 4agze as my gte again i will be happy with 250 rwhp and loads of realibility.
but knowing me, when i reach that goal i most probably would want more....
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Your only young once! I might as well be a dickhead while i still have the chance cause one day I'LL be saying "Why would you want to go that fast" and by then it will be too late.
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hell i'm nearly 32 and i love fast...
do you want to be better than your brother on the dyno? or the street?
how much do they weigh them cap thingies? 700kg?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: stroking a 4agze
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Wed, 25 February 2004 20:38
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Thats what i figured....Your never too old
Fast is good!
The cap weighs just under 700kg. It hasn't been run yet so we don't know how fast it will go down the quarter? Although, a 12 of some sort is the figure that has been thrown around by some people.
I'm not too sure where this dyno thing came from? I couldn't give two shits about the dyno! I just want a hell fast car I think people think that as soon as you want lots of power it's going to be a dyno car!?
This is going to be a street car with occasional track use.
Of course i will put it on the dyno at the end to see what sort of power it has but thats it.
Don't really like drag racing but i might run it one time to see what it does.
I want to beat him on the street. It's not that hard to beat 105rwkw with a 4agte It's just his power to weight that gives him the advantage so the only way is on the street or at the drags i guess.
Got my header flange yesterday so all i need is my turbo and i can start the manifold
It's coming along slowly
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