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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 09:31
 
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well, when cleaning carbon out of the car, i just spray on RP-7, and next day the carbon can easily be wiped off.
if it comes loose in the combustion chamber it will prolly be lown out, BUT, it may get stuck in the spark plugs, may get stuck on the valve seats....
if it doesn't work, pull the head, if you don;t do it, pull the head  . if it does work your laughing 
i reckon give it a go... it probably won;'t be as bad as the pinging you have now... what cams? why are they causing pinging?
(longer duration generally lowers dynamic CR?)
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 10:00
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i wouldnt think carbon build up in your combustion chamber would cause pinging, i would be looking for other causes.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Plumpton/sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 10:09
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What will you do when your cat converter gets blocked up with all the shit out of your engine.
If your car is pinging then it will be burning the carbon of the top of your pistons anyway 
BEN
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 11:59
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2 thing here guys,
No 1: Carbon build up can cause Pre-Ignition, sounds like pinging, sounds just like detonation., but it is the air fuel mix being ignited by a hot spot within the combustion chamber, prior to the plug firing.
No 2: Throttle body and carby cleaner,(Suby stuff is really good) is an effective maintenance tool. Cleans up idle control valves, pistons and valves, removes the gunk that PCV valves put into the intake system.
Thirty years ago: rev engine to 3,000rpm, and squirt a decent volume of water from the garden hose down the carby. Literallty steam cleans the carbon fron valves and pistons. Get it wrong! too much water, and you end up hydraulic locking the engine, results in bent rods and cost a shit load to fix!
regards Chuck.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 12:03
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You'd need a pretty fricking huge volume of water to hydraulic lock an engine at 3000rpm!
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 14:48
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Try ATF.
Pull the ignition, pour some in the inj/spark-plug holes, turn over for 10sec (not run, since no ign).
After 24hrs, start it up like normal... itll produce a HUGE amount of smoke, so best to do it at night
Ive heard its an old rotary trick...
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Thu, 04 March 2004 22:22
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ok thanks fells this is awesome
well cabon build up DOES cause pre ignition. And I am sure I have lots of carbon in th
My timing is standard, my dizzy straight, I run optimax. My car should not be pinging. 'Cept I know I have a carbon buildup. And I suspect I have non-standard cams, but like you said, generally the don't cause a problem like this.
SO - I was given this stuff, maybe RP-7 not sure. Told to take out my sparkies, drop it in, leave for 15, turn the car on! (is this the procudure?)
I feel like I wanna do a better job than just a spray down the throttle body while running.
But do I stand to wreck anything (other than my cat?)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 00:25
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i'm told diesel will also help clean your engine BUT remember it will also dilute/remove the oil from your bores, so, on starting/rotation you will do damage.
what about a fuel additive to burn the stuff out as you drive NOT something as dramatic as diesel, water, RP7 ect...?
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 00:27
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yeah don't wanna use diesel
but dont' know if just "as you drive" stuff would work as good as actually allowing something to "clean" the pistons for a few minutes
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:00
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You know rob, in japan the Celica GT (ST162) ran 10.0:1 compression as opposed to aussie spec 9.0:1. Alot of people are under the impression that your engine is not entirely aus-spec (and for dyno suggestive reasons) I may be a bit of a nay-sayer, but it is possible that carbon build up and the higher compression (if you do have the jap spec engine) will cause pre-det. Remember that 100 octane fuel is readily available in japan, and optimax is only 98.
Try bp ultimate 98 as well - I know that they are technically the same RON, but ultimate 98 is a pretty good fuel and very reliable.
If you want to do a better job than spraying something down there (either water or rp7) then you would have to take the head off (like I did) and get it fully cleaned up. You can also get throttle body cleaner which you may use (anyone know any reasons not to?)
If you do spray de-coking atuff down there, try to run your engine without any spark for a bit, it'll just get the oil up and around the place before you start it up and it might help reduce any potential wear issues.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:05
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thanks heaps dude
yeah ok well it pre-dets just at lowish revvs under a little bit of load. I want to find the real cause of the issue, because if it is doing it with optimax it will probably do it sooner or later with something else... 
So apprecaite your post.
Ok so procedure is:
Sparkies Out
RP-7 in (funnel or something with the awkwardly sloped 3sge)
Wait a few minutes
Sparkies back in (but unplugged from ignitor so no spark)
Few rounds with the starter to get some oil around the pistons
Ignitor Connected
Black smoke out zorsty
Hopefully less/no detonation
sound alright? I may get my cat angry, but I want a high-flow anyway, and I MUST stop this pre-det
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:19
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Sounds about right - just be careful with the second step, pouring fluids into an engine can cause 'funky' stuff to happen if too much goes in...the only rp-7 I've played around with has been a spray-can type thingo.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:26
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yeha I will be using a spray can and spraying some straight in..
not exactly sure how much I will need though 
I will see what the can says
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:45
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More than likely it will say 'liberally'
Another thing - have you changed your spark plugs at all lately? Because the wrong 'temperature' spark plugs can cause detonation issues - have an acquaintance who had that issue with his 5S-FE. The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head is the exhaust valves getting too hot - but it's hard to say exactly what would cause that to happen.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:47
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well I have been running bosh 4-head things for a while now.. and only really noticed this problem the last few weeks, but have had the sparkies probably over a year.
hmmm but that is something I could double check.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:54
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Yeah when you have the sparkies out, just check their colour and compare it with one of those chart thingos - if you don't have a spark plug chart thingo that will make things trickier to diagnose I've got one or two lying around and I may be able to get one scanned in for ya.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:56
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a 1L bottle of RedX and a spare vac hose... 3500rpm and a quite street where noone will notice the bushfire-scale smoke column youll produce
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 01:58
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a 1L bottle of RedX and a spare vac hose... 3500rpm and a quite street where noone will notice the bushfire-scale smoke column youll produce
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please explain? what do I do with the spare vac hose? quiet street = no problem! is this better than using RP-7 down the hole while switched off?
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 02:02
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yeah but "spare"? I don't have any "spare" holes for it to connect to on my system.
Redex = repco type purchase?
so many questions I feel like an idiot.. heh
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 02:07
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no no... i mean get the engine cranking up to 3500-4000rpm... and pull a vac hose off up near the throttle body (so that anything entering the system will be 'evenly' distributed to all 4 cyls).
connect up a long piece of vac hose - one to the nipple on the throttle body (or wherever you pulled the original hose off from) and dunk the other end in the bottle of RedX. pinch or crimp the hose as needed to control the flow rate of the RedX into the engine.
keep the engine revving and watch the smoke begin. does a decent job at cleaning the valves, comb chamber and piston domes.
also, you dont want to blast through the whole 1L too quickly, regulate the flow such that the engines is spluttering and a decent gob a smoke is coming out, but dont let it go too fast. you want the bottle to last as long as possible as youre likely to get a better result the longer you do it
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 02:09
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sounds good ed!
repco here I come!  I'll let you all know how it goes..
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 02:11
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Well that's probably a better way of doing it, just requires more thought
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 02:12
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and it is quicker and me being lazy as they come.. lol
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Fri, 05 March 2004 03:59
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hey ed, is that Redex Petrol Treatment? or the Injector Treatment? I reckon the petrol..
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sat, 06 March 2004 12:48
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guys went to several stores looking at Redex products today
I ended up buying the smaller (250ml) container of "REDEX Petrol Treatment". After reading the backs of them this one seems to describe what we are looking for.
It says that it will remove carbon, gum and varnish deposits, reduce cold start engine wear but lubricating upper cylinders, and combats fuel system corrosion.
Then in the "Engine Treatment" section it says, "Warm up engine, remove plugs and pour in 50ml of Redex into each plughole. Allow 30 minutes for Redex to penetrate. Turn over engine for up to 10 seconds, covering plugholes with an absorbent cloth to soak up expelled liquid, to remove dissolved carbo, gum and varnish".
So, naturally allowing it to soak seems a good option so what I will do is the above (with 35-40mls) , followed by ed's suggestion with a vacuum hose with the rest to clean the valve seats.
Will let you all know how it goes tomorrow
Rob
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sat, 06 March 2004 20:22
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AND THEN I was thinking I better NOT just pour it in because the ol' 3SGE sits on like a 10 degree angle in the bay, so all I would be doing is cleaning one side of the piston heads.
this is ghey - but I really wanted to give the heads a good soak but it seems like I can't, unless I can get the butt of my car hugely off the ground up a hill...
I can't win!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
The Eastwood MASSIVE !
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 07 March 2004 03:38
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Let me know when you do this so I don't report the smoke as a bush fire
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 07 March 2004 08:13
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cant you just jack up one side of the car to level the engine out? or, just buy more of the stuff so theres enough in each clinder to cover the top of the pistons, then suck some out with a syringe.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 07 March 2004 11:57
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And the outcome!
LOTS OF WHITE SMOKE. What I did was connected vac hoses to two little nipples on the intake manifold, one kinda near the throttle, and one closer to the other side. I did about 60% of the bottle on the one near the throttle and some on the other side just to ensure even distribution.
I sucked down the 250mls in about 2 mins I guess regulating the flow by squeezing the hose. SMT_007 kept the revvs at about 3k for me
I did not have quite enough to do the pour in the cylinders and leave trick, but I may do that later and I appreciate all your advice. We will see how we go. Try the easiest thing first I say.
It ran white smoke for maybe 15 minutes
Immediate results: I could not detect the pinging that was irritating me before, BUT, I don't think I have tested it enough yet. More tomorrow.
Will be interested in starting my car tomorrow to see the level of cold start rattle. Will also keep you posted about that.
All for now. Cheers all, appreciate the advice SO MUCH.
Rob
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 07 March 2004 12:07
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That cold start rattle may be the oil filter - I dunno if I told you about this before...but my car rattled like a prick for about 5 or so seconds when I started it, then it would clear up.
All that was needed was an anti-drainback oil filter so that the oil filter didn't need to fill back up when the engine was started after sitting around for a while.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 07 March 2004 12:10
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yeah it is unpredictable. Some mornings I will get it, others, not.
I think most filters have anti-drainback valves in them anyway don't they?
If it is tappits or something...
anyway, I don't know heaps about the sources of rattles n' stuff I will take my plugs out and inspect my piston heads this week. (loverly tiny mag light I have) Actually, i wish I had a camera, we could do a real good before and after. damm
anyone wanna come take pics? lol, well I can always describe it.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 07 March 2004 12:20
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As it turns out not all of them do, because the one on my car before the one I have now didn't, I can't remember which brand it was though. I'm not sure if they print whether it is anti-drainback on the filter itself or not, but it's worth a quick look.
Also - the 3S-GE doesn't have tappets per-se, they have these fucking bucket shims that you have to replace/machine (I think, I haven't ever operated on them myself) because the cam operates on the valve directly.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 14 March 2004 02:36
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Hey Rob - are all the signs of pinging gone? Just want to know if it was successful?
Thanks
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 14 March 2004 23:11
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hey dude, I definitely noticed my car has NOT pinged since I ran the cleaner through. was driving up a slight slope at low revvs in 4th yesterday to check it, and no pinging buddy!
I have been wanting to take some photos of my piston tops but havent had a camer to do it with . Just to see if they looked "cleaned".
But yeah, pinging is gone. Obviously you need to check all the obvious stuff first, timing, fuel octane rating.. but this helped me.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 21 March 2004 05:26
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Hey Rob - could you just unplug the hose taking air from the charcoal cannister and plonk that in the petrol treatment bottle and just pinch the hose to regulate flow? I'm a bit skeptical about doing it because I've heard in old cars the carbon can be helping to stop the car burning oil i.e carbon buildup on piston rings. Just don't want to do it and regret it (ending up with a smoke blower)  . Thanks mate
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sunshine Coast
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Sun, 21 March 2004 11:43
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hey..what is pinging?..sorry im a bit of a newb i only got my first car (st162).. i think i have pinging..sometimes when im driving along..i hear like a wierd noise..kind of like a metal ticking noise..kind of like the noise when ur about to stall..except its real quite..and no im not about to stall when i heard it..my car is now fucked but not because of me
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: That stuff you spray in your injector/spark holes to clean your pistons
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Wed, 24 March 2004 00:47
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Picked up a bottle of Redex petrol clean yesterday, but im still unsure of which vaccuum hoses to dunk into the bottle. Do i pull off one of the EPR hoses?Or should it be the ones from under the TB going to the EGR valve? Il see if i can get a pic of the TB up. I just dont wanna suck stuff through the wrong one and stuff my engine or something. Thanx guys
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