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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 10 March 2004 11:59
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I have been asked a couple of times now how i got the 4A-GE 100kW motor to work in RWD, especially with regards to the intake manifold.
So this is for those who are interested, and have no idea of what is supposed to happen when you get your intake manifold professionally "CUT'N'SHUT". Basically the throttle body is removed from the original end, and a blanking plate is made up to cover up the hole. A plate is laser cut for the other end with a hole the size of the TB, and is drilled/tapped for the TB to bolt onto it. The "rear end" of the plenum which is now the fron in your RWD car it cut off, and the laser cut plate welded on so that the TB can be bolted on.
Further to this, i made some slight changes to the funtion of the TB - namely the warm idle up functionality. This is the water that circulated at the bottom of the TB for idle up in extreme conditions - i figured i didnt really need it, and it was more of a pain to hook it up than remove it.
So i simply unbolted the water circulation parts from underneath the TB (this is the bit with the small water outlets coming out from underneath the throttle body), and completely covered the mating area of this part and the throttle body with gasket paper, and bolted the two back together. Thats it - nothing is now hooked up to that POS.
NOTE RE PCV HOSE: Please read the later posts in this thread by Jasonp1977 regarding the way that the PCV is plumbing in the unmodified FWD manifold, and how it is affected when the manifold is cut and shut. Basically your PCV hose from the cam cover needs to be plumbed into your intake BEFORE THE THROTTLE BODY since the fitting on the plenum is blocked from the cut'n'shut. Alternatively you can of course use an oil catch can...
Other than that - everything is pretty simple and self explanitory looking at the pictures below.
NB: All fabrication and welding work performed by "YelloRolla" as he's known on the forums.
And what was started with....
[Updated on: Tue, 03 August 2004 12:16]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 10 March 2004 21:40
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Karl,
You forgot to mention the oil gallery in the intake from the PCV hose. In the standard setup the setup routes the oil vapour to IN FRONT of the throttle body. When you cut and shut it, the return basically get's blocked off and you would have a buildup of pressure because there's nowhere for the vapour to go in that setup unless you drill a hole in the gallery inside the intake, but that leaves you with the problem of the return being after the throttle body which can play havok with your MAP readings.
The fix is to plump the PCV into a new location before the throttle body. If you have a spare manifold handy, take the throttle body off and you will see the gallery and the hole in the throttle body that guides it to in front of the throttle plate.
Jason
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 10 March 2004 23:28
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Awesome stuff, this could prove to be very useful  I like your articles
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 10 March 2004 23:41
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I cut the front and back off mine with a Demo saw (yes a demo saw, worked really well).. then welded the front to the back , and the back to the front, did a bit of filing and cleaning up. Welded a small block onto the side of the manifold for attaching the throttle cable bracket and made a new throttle body gasket (if u dont make a new one which blocks off a few particular air bleed holes the car will idle around 3000rpm) .. viola Nice and cheap to do.
Good article Karl
Cheers
Gaz
AE86 Trueno
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 10 March 2004 23:54
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I just bought a RWD one in Japan for 5000 yen (AU$7.00) 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 00:19
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...you might have some manifold leaks bolting that to a smallport head...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 00:26
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yes it would leak.. and if u paid $7 for it, how much was freight etc etc to australia?
Gaz
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 01:11
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Correction 500 yen...
It's going on a big-port head sitting atop a late model GZE!!!
I got about 30 items sent over at once... the total for all items (21kg's) was $230 that was sent by DHL... not the cheapest way.
Some of items i have got... Apexi 4-1 extractors $7 ... GReddy Turbo Timer $12... APEXi 1.3kg Radiator Cap $12... Nismo Sterring Wheel $25... MOMO Steering Wheel $35... Veilside, Impul, TRD and Nismo Shift Knobs none over $20... Greddy 1.5 Bar Indiglo boost gauges 1 black - 1 white $35 each...
Next is a set of 2nd Hand TRD or HKS Cams... should get em landed for under $450... then moving up to Coilovers etc... but they are bulky hence big cost in posting... still I am estimating I can get a 2nd hand set of 4 TIEN coilovers landed for under $800
Hee Hee I have the scam... I will never buy performance parts in Australia again... added benefits of having a Japanese Girlfriend... and the massages. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 04:00
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Not sure if there is a point to it
As for what Jason said, he is right that when a cut and shut job is done to a FWD manifold, the PCV sytem has to be changed to work . The manifold will still maintain the original 'port' on the side (near the cold start injector) but the point where it routes to (it isn't just a hole to inside the manifold) gets block off by the blanking plate which is welded onto the back. It usually routes from the side of the manifold to the throttle body (infront of the butterfly so as not to disturb the MAP sensor) . So if you are unaware of this (like i was) , do the cut and shut job, plug up your PCV pipe to the manifold as normal and start your car, you'll very quickly find oil seaping out of every orifice in the head from the buildup of PC gases (oops). Hope that makes sense.
Gaz
AE86 Trueno
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 04:13
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Point was... why fuck around cutting and shutting when they are so cheap!
Jeez... MrSoopra... you were the one who asked me how much it cost to get out all I was doing was answering your question.
See sig.
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 04:20
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adamb131: Quite possibly because we are talking about a small port 4AGE??? It says so right in the title of the thread. Just because you have a big port head doesn't mean that we all have one (or even want one). Sure, if you have a big port head by all means go and buy a RWD intake manifold...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 04:29
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Adamb131, i was merely making a point that it would cost more than $7 to buy a RWD manifold from Japan and get it shipped over here.. Not everyone has a luxury of knowing someone in Japan either. Nor has the time to wait for delivery. This is a guide (very useful one too) to help people make a FWD smallport manifold into a RWD smallport manifold.
Gaz
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 04:31
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The cankcase vent hose spot on the intake manifold will not be functional when a smallport intake manifold is cut and shut.
The pipe on the inlet does not go straight into the intake manifold, it goes into a gallery on the inside of the intake that routes it to BEFORE the throttle butterfly.
You can see the gallery in the picture below, mine has my air intake temp sensor through the middle of it towards the rear of the phlenum.
Basically, the cankcase gas goes in the pipe, along the gallery, out the end of the manifold, then through another gallery in the throttle body to before the throttle butterfly...
The arrow on the right hand side of this pic shows where the gallery used to come out before it was filled on this manifold, highlighted with a red dot...
The hole where that red dot is then passes the gas into the hole here:
Which then comes out here:
And one more shot to show where the hole should be on an unmodified intake manifold...
..ok, understand now?
If the manifold is simply cut and shut, and the hose connected straight into the standard location, it will have the same effect as plugging the vent on the cam cover. So the best thing to do is to plumb the cank case vent into the intake before the throttle body in a NA setup, or before the turbo in a turbo setup...
[Updated on: Thu, 11 March 2004 04:33]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 04:36
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Good work Jason.. Nice detailed pics too! Grega will be pleased
Gaz
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 05:15
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the leak in the front main you describe could be caused by the blocked pcv. Had this problem with a 5MGE i once had.. PVC was blocked and when the car was idling i'd get leakies out of front main, took it for a drive and it blew the front seal out and emptied my sump (doh).. The pressue buildup inside the crankcase will always find a way out, it just looks for the weakest path , possibly your main seal. Just a thought
Gaz
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Thu, 11 March 2004 05:32
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 12 March 2004 02:43
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although it doesnt apply to me, this looks very helpful- someone make it sticky and chuck it up the top!!!
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 12 March 2004 05:26
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another one for the tech section i think, this couldnt be any clearer although tech articles seem to be going into the gallery section for some reason.
forgive me if you covered this and i missed it, but could you drill a hole straight into the pipe that the pcv hose goes onto, therefor letting the gass into the plenum?
and adamb131, if you can get manifolds so cheap, can you order a few in for me, i will give you $20 each, so you get more than a 100% proffit
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 12 March 2004 11:39
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Yes, Jason did cover this, and ill reply for him.
If you do this you will get uneven pressure readings which will play havoc with the MAP sensor. Which is exactly what i get at the moment on my GZE. Let me tell you, its not fun.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 12 March 2004 13:42
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i checked mine out after the "Coke Can" install, and found that the fitting for the PCV into the plenum which should be blocked up according to jason's description is in fact sucking air!
When i blocked it with my finger, the idle went all screwy for a second (thats all i blocked it for), so plumbed the hose back in like i have it on my picture up the top.
This would suggest then that the crankcase ventilation is going directly into the plenum? If so i should be getting screwed up MAP signals - but i dont know, the motor works fine.
Whats the signs of a screwy MAP signal?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 12 March 2004 22:19
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Probably in this case overfuelling and blowing a bit of oil too.
But im not entirely sure.
My MAP sensor is actually dropping out regularly which is a bitch.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 13 March 2004 01:28
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| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 11 March 2004 15:51 |
EDIT: have updated original post. Perhaps i should make a proper article and get it on the articles page.
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Top idea, and put Jasons pictures in it as well.
Cheers all
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 13 March 2004 02:30
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Karl,
Maybe try blocking it off and opening up your idle valve a bit. Maybe the air it's pulling in through that port is copensating for an idle setting that is too low.
I have to block mine off because if I dont, it will pressurise my crankcase when on boost. I've got to plumb the return from my catch can before the turbo.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 13 March 2004 06:19
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i was thinking that... although i did have to increase the idle pretty high when i first set the thing up.
Anyway, sometime this week with a little spare time and some parts from the wreckers ill get to testing it with a catch can (again it will be dodgy)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sun, 14 March 2004 00:16
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Go the Vanilla Coke it's the best kind.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Mon, 15 March 2004 01:46
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Karl,
I had to set my idle up heaps aswell when doing the 100kw RWD conversion. I read somewhere that this is normal and has something to do with a blocked air bleed or something when doing the manifold conversion. Not sure whats going on with your PCV.. if you pull the hose off the manifold, and look inside, can u see straight in?
I've found with the 100kw ECU that if there is a big air leak the car will idle high (2,000rpm) for a few seconds, then drop down to a low rpm for a second, then jump back up to the high idle and keep going up and down. I'm pretty sure this is from a low vacuum cause my friend put some mega high cams in his 100kw and it did the same thing (later found out it had almost no vacuum).
Gaz
AE86 Trueno
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 19 March 2004 13:58
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Probably a silly question, but I got my 4AGE today and was wondering about the throttle cable bracket. After the cut and shut, obviously the bracket no longer goes where it used to, how did you mount it on the other end? Did you drill right through the body and use a bolt and nut arrangement? If so, how do you stop air leaks? If not, then how?
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Location:
Vic
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 20 March 2004 10:05
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I assume you drill & tap some holes in a suitable location.
It would probably be best to weld a flat section on 1st to make it easier
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 20 March 2004 11:06
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Couple of points:
The 'normal' PCV fitting DOES also go into the plenum area, but only with a very small hole. This is why it can still suck your finger at idle, and will upset the idle a bit when you leave it open.
Grega: I should have mentioned this to you about the plenum, I forgot at the time! I never used it, obviously, because we're using a different TB now aren't we 
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 20 March 2004 12:42
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I was thinking of making a bracket from the top outside bolt that holds the throttle body on to hold the throttle cable bracket on, as I don't really want to drill into the intake manifold... Would be nice to weld a plate on and tap into that, but I don't have a TIG...
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 20 March 2004 13:08
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they are only very short bolts that hold the cable mount in place.....
as for the PCV....... completely shutting off the fitting that goes into the plenum will still be ok im guessing mr shin, but of course i will need to adjust my idle.
I will see if there is any change when i block it and plumb the PCV either to the front side of the TB or to a catch can (with nothing going into the plenum)
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 20 March 2004 21:57
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Karl: Yup they are only short... But I was having a look at the manifold and the walls aren't very thick either. Did you drill right through the manifold? Or just tap it in a little and just use the bolts to tap as far as they need to? Sorry for asking something probably obvious, but there isn't much room for error there and I don't want to wreck my manifold!
Ta
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Sat, 20 March 2004 22:01
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i didnt do that part.... jason (yellowrolla) did the entire cutnshut for me and this was part of what he did...
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Location:
northern beaches
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Tue, 03 August 2004 08:42
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sorry to be a pain but would it be posible to get these photos up again?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Sweden
Registered:
May 2003
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Location:
northern beaches
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 04 August 2004 12:03
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sweet, thanks heaps
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 04 August 2004 12:23
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no it doesnt look like yours  you have a bigport manifold, thats totally different!!
You bigport owners have the option of the factoy RWD manifold. smallport only ever came FWD.
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Location:
Sweden
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Wed, 04 August 2004 19:41
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OK it doesnt looks like it in that meaning, I meant the cutting and welding  .
There was no RWD 4A-GE in Sweden so a have to make my own manifold.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 06 August 2004 06:22
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forgive my ignorance, but what does the PCV pipe do exactly?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: RWD 4A-GE 100kW Intake manifold - how to guide
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Fri, 06 August 2004 06:51
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positive crankcase ventilation (PCV)- when manifold is at high vacuum, it will scavange vapour from crankcase, at low vacuum (e.g. foot flat to floor) excess crankcase vapour (pressure) vents by the larger hose to infront of the throttle (or if you have a turbo, infront of the turbo.
regardless of engine behaviour, the ventilation should allow vapour/gas to exit into the induction system (or catchcan)
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