Author | Topic |
Toymods Board Member
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 09:03
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The NSW Government in all their wisdom is proposing that the demerit point system and fines be reviewed - in summary, to make them harsher!
Some of the fines are looking at doubling
A summary of the proposal is.... here
and the actual proposal is.... here
Instead of 12 points we'll be working off 15... but we're gonna need them all.
Here's a sample of some changes...
Offence - Previous fine/points - New fine/points
Stop on/near pedestrian crossing - $226/ no points - $225/3 points.
Obscured/defaced/illegible number plate - $76/no points - $300/3 points.
Drive vehicle with speed evasion article - $1173/no points - $1175/9 points.
Unsafe towing - $76-127/no points - $300/3 points.
Passenger safety e.g. tow trailer with person in/on trailer - $74-76/no points - $225/3 points.
Have a read... not happy
They can have my comment for sure.
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Location: Brisvegas
Registered: June 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 09:27
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"well structured" indeed....pfft
how the hell can they justify fine increases...esp the obscured number plate. What warrants a $224 increase when other offences have only increased the number of demerit points
blantant revenue rasining imo
Quote: | The submissions to the demerit point review made it clear the public wanted penalties to be fair, Mr Scully said
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i dont think any member of the public would deem it fair that they now pay more and loose more points for the same offence. Ok so they make some good points about how it reflects on safety and so forth...but wheres the logic in:
Quote: | Obscured/defaced/illegible number plate - $76/no points - $300/3 points
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friggin government makes me so angry *grr*
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Location: Potts Point, Sydney
Registered: October 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 09:58
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Pffft!!! They get smarter each day dont they? We should organise a protest or something that its puely a REVENUE RAISER
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Location: Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered: January 2004
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 10:11
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how do you 'protest' against something like this? drive 6 in a 60zone?
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 11:23
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they are a friggn joke.
I am mad.
very mad.
yeah, i will join the "6" in a "60" zone brigade..
what can we do?
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I supported Toymods On probation
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Registered: January 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 12:24
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get some stickers made up for your cars and drive around 6 in a 60 zone, when you get booked ring ACA or Today Tonight
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Location: Canberra
Registered: August 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 13:29
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thats sucks and blows all at the same time....
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Toymods Board Member
Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 14:16
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check out the pdf and take the time to read the hundreds of offences (some new)... how bout these >>>>>
# Drive vehicle with TV/VDU image likely to distract ---- (proposed) fine $225 and loss 3 points
# Use wheeled toy on road at prohibited time ----- $50 fine
# Not keep left when using wheeled device/toy ----- $50 fine
[lol]
# Ride motor bike with 4 or more unhelmeted passengers (rider not
helmeted) ----- fine $1185
# Splash mud on bus passenger ---- $125 fine
# Interrupt funeral procession ---- $75 fine
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Location: 1st street on the right
Registered: November 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 21:14
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That's it, I'm going out to find a funeral procession, do 6 in front of it in a 60 zone on my motorbike with 4 passangers, all of us without helmets, past a bus stop in the rain with a plasma screen m ounted on the front.
I'M SCREWED!
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 21:47
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Quote: | # Splash mud on bus passenger ---- $125 fine
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hahahaha NOOOO ruining all my fun
but serious, they will be telling us when to breath next.
I am over this.
NSW ALREADY has the most stringent fine system of any state, and THIS?
It is like they are running a profit-oriented business yet this business has the power to price-hike and not 'lose' customers the way a normal business obviously would.
damm it they should learn some public relations rather than just how to increase the directors payments. I have never received a "survey" from the just to ascertain how me, part of the 'silent' (for the most part) feels about proposed changes.
is is usually a vocal minority (read anal old people and mainly company directors) who affect changes so we suffer while they make laws with no reference to the people it most affects.
friggn idiots
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location: Sydney
Registered: July 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Wed, 17 March 2004 23:35
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You know what the best part is....
Carl Scully doesnt drive. He has a private chaufer.
I have said it before and ill say it again. If i ever saw this cock sucker in person, i would make it my duty to voice my opinions personally to him, with extreme predjudice.
Now im going to go out and play with my wheeled toy while im still allowed to??????
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Location: Sydney
Registered: January 2004
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 00:22
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I believe that demerit points should only be given to actual driving offences like driving too fast, negligent or dangerously. I don't see why driving with a dirty or obscured number plate has anything to do with my driving ability. That is a defectable item. If I get caught with it after being defected, sure take demerits then.
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Location: Sydney
Registered: January 2004
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 00:23
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And a wheeled toy, is that R/C cars and stuff?
What about a R/C Tank. Its not wheeled is it??
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 00:27
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I can't call them laws anymore they are ridiculous.. I don't know about you but I feel increasingly like I am living in a communist state
Part of living in a democratic free state is the right to make mistakes and stuff up if we feel like it.
yes, not if it affects people, BUT since WHEN did having a dirty/bent numberplate equate to hurting others
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 00:55
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RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:27 | BUT since WHEN did having a dirty/bent numberplate equate to hurting others
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Its not that, its the fact that sooooooooooo many ppl out there purposely bend or don't clean their plates, so that when they get flashed, the camera cant see the whole plate, and therefore they cant fine the driver.
I think that fine is a good idea, but maybe a warning should be issuedd first. If somebody backs into your car, and bends the plates, and you don't see it, its not your fault. Tho, as a responsible driver, you are expected to do a check of your car before you drive it, make sure there are no babies under your tyres etc etc etc.
The law that has me fucked is
Quote: | # Ride motor bike with 4 or more unhelmeted passengers (rider not helmeted) ----- fine $1185
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Ok, since when can you get more than 2 ppl on a motorbike? Is WA missing out on something here?
And what about the trike limo we have here (somebody took a 1930's car, cut off the front, extended the rear, and bolted up a trike to it). It seats about 8, so do they NEED helmets?
If so, that would be a hefty fine for the rider
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 00:58
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Quote: | Its not that, its the fact that sooooooooooo many ppl out there purposely bend or don't clean their plates, so that when they get flashed, the camera cant see the whole plate, and therefore they cant fine the driver.
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yeah but dude did you see the fines/points? absolutely stupid. the law needs to be appropriate otherwise people get angry.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 01:01
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RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:58 |
Quote: | Its not that, its the fact that sooooooooooo many ppl out there purposely bend or don't clean their plates, so that when they get flashed, the camera cant see the whole plate, and therefore they cant fine the driver.
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yeah but dude did you see the fines/points? absolutely stupid. the law needs to be appropriate otherwise people get angry.
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Actually, that fine seems appropriate to me. Think of how many fines you'd skip if your plates weren't visible. Probably 1000's of dollars worth.
But as I said, they'd need to issue a warning first
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 01:05
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but they don't indicate a one-warning system in the law there do they?
next thing I will be up the creek $1000 because one of my numberplate lights blew and the copper couldn't see my plate. now who is to judge whether I did that on purpose or not.
see cars are not made of titanium, and even if they were, they would still brake, bend etc and the law needs to account for this. explicitly otherwise it creates a very unfair system where people who are innocent will be penalised along with the guilty minority.
I know LOTS of plates (esp some of the older yellow ones) through no fault of the driver (actually fault of poor manufacturing) have faded to almost illegible.
now the ball is in the indivuals court to go to the RTA and PAY to have some new plates made according to the pink slip place.
under this system he will get fined for something that was the RTAs lack of quality control procedures.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 01:18
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Quote: | I know LOTS of plates (esp some of the older yellow ones) through no fault of the driver (actually fault of poor manufacturing) have faded to almost illegible
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That goes straight back on the drivers/owners responsibility of upkeeping his/her car.
If your windscreen get dirty from the car in front in your throwing oil from his exhuast, do you not clean it becuase its through no fault of yours?
If your tyres go bald do you not change them?
If the sun goes down/drive through a tunnel do you not turn your lights on?
Its part of a drivers responsibility that his/her car is legal and safe at all times.
I agree with you about the number plate lights tho.
Thats why I am saying that they need to issue a warning system first. You get one warning per item, and one day to fix it.
If you get pulled over 2 days later and you number plate lights are still not working, you wear the fine.
etc etc etc
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 01:27
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mate the car has been immaculately looked after, but I would be slightly irritated if I got lost 1/4 of my license and $300 for a relatively new number plate which has had the paint fade and crack despite the car having the best of care, not to mention having to already pay for some new plates.
like I said all along, and you have been saying, a warning system first round would be a step in the right direction
and like I said, the law needs to account for the fact that cars are not invincible and get dirty as you so accurately pointed out and dented, and old etc. not just blanket everyone as a "criminal" because their numberplate is hard to read.
Just as it is our responsibility to change our rego stickers, so it should be to make sure our number plates are clearly visible. But I don't think it is the equivalent of driving you know like 90 in a 60 zone.
damm we will be fined for a dirty windscreen soon though if this keeps up
reasonable laws = happy populace
irrational laws = irritated populace
I am irritated
(a growing irritation I might add over several years of inneffective strategies by the police to keep people under the thumb while enjoying record revenue with no decrease in road deaths/accidents)
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 01:31
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Quote: | damm we will be fined for a dirty windscreen soon though if this keeps up
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Umm, if you check you current road laws, I think you'll find out that you CAN already be fined for a dirty windscreen
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 01:36
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oh.
good thing I like seeing through my windscreen enough to keep it pretty clean haha
I am having trouble keeping track of all these laws. I will have trouble keeping my perfect record for another 50 years. heehee
Ignorance it seems = $$$ for the local enforcers
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Location: Potts Point, Sydney
Registered: October 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 02:35
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clubagreenie wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:14 | That's it, I'm going out to find a funeral procession, do 6 in front of it in a 60 zone on my motorbike with 4 passangers, all of us without helmets, past a bus stop in the rain with a plasma screen m ounted on the front.
I'M SCREWED!
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Let's do it!!! Dont forget to splash mud on the people at the bus stop
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Location: Perth
Registered: May 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 03:02
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What kind of find do you think you would get in this scenario:
Me & 3 mates where bored driving around in the corona
So i told my mate to change gears for me i just told him when the clutch was in/out then i told my mate in the back to steer so all i was doing was the pedals, we were caking our self laughing
(done in a controlled enviroment)
Could you imagine if a copper saw you doing that
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 03:06
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The list of fines would be as long as my ... arm
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Location: Central Coast
Registered: July 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 05:10
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There is one fine they need to add is Tailgating. I know it comes under Neg Driviing but they need to separate it to deter people.
Make the fine $5,458 and your whole licence.
F**k tailgaters
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Location: Brisbane, QLD
Registered: February 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 05:56
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RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 11:05 | but they don't indicate a one-warning system in the law there do they?
next thing I will be up the creek $1000 because one of my numberplate lights blew and the copper couldn't see my plate. now who is to judge whether I did that on purpose or not.
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then you take it to the magistrates court and contest your fine
you should get off if its for a blown light bulb
unless you are a complete idiot(like so many are) who abuse the shit out of cops\magistrates when they are fined, or make excuses
best thign to do when fined is say nothing, if asked to comment on the fine\offer explanation do not as this may indicate guilt.
i've gotten out of a few speeding tickets and a wreckless driving charge
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Location: 1st street on the right
Registered: November 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 09:58
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dimmy77_03 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 13:35 |
clubagreenie wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:14 | That's it, I'm going out to find a funeral procession, do 6 in front of it in a 60 zone on my motorbike with 4 passangers, all of us without helmets, past a bus stop in the rain with a plasma screen m ounted on the front.
I'M SCREWED!
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Let's do it!!! Dont forget to splash mud on the people at the bus stop
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Hence the rain.
My crown has original no plates, a bit faded but repainteble but fucked if I'm PAYING to have them replaced with something non period. Unless I go historic rego, = cheap.
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Registered: May 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 12:19
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RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:47 |
Quote: | # Splash mud on bus passenger ---- $125 fine
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damm it they should learn some public relations rather than just how to increase the directors payments. I have never received a "survey" from the just to ascertain how me, part of the 'silent' (for the most part) feels about proposed changes.
is is usually a vocal minority (read anal old people and mainly company directors) who affect changes so we suffer while they make laws with no reference to the people it most affects.
friggn idiots
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Having spoken (at some length) to the bloke who will actually be receiving/processing the "public comments", I can vouch for the fact that the majority will indeed, remain "silent". (He intimated that they had received around 40-odd public submissions up to today - the cut-off for such submissions is tommorrow.
A "fait acompli"?
Probably...
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Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 12:26
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I will be silent no longer! lol
dude if you can provide me his email I will type a thoughtful and polite (I am serious here) letter tomorrow
Cheers
Rob
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Location: Sydney
Registered: April 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Thu, 18 March 2004 12:31
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If these new rules start up i might just have to start walking or just get a scooter so i can scoot my way to work and back.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Australia
Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Sat, 20 March 2004 14:55
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RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 09:27 | Just as it is our responsibility to change our rego stickers, so it should be to make sure our number plates are clearly visible.
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Just so you know Rob, this is how the law stands in WA, and I'd presume it is the same for the rest of country
Quote: | By law, motorists are responsible for returning any number plates that is damaged or dilapitated and illegible to the licensing authority. Motorists were required to secure a new set of plates.
If you fail to do so and drive around with damaged plates on your car, you may be fined.
It is also the responibility of motorists to keep the number plates on vehicles clean so they can be read.Failure to do so will result in a fine.
Also obscuring plates with towballs or plastic films on covers were also an offence.
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I Supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: December 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Sun, 21 March 2004 03:26
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Think about it... How could you possibly splash mud on a bus passenger?
If they are a passenger they are ALREADY on the bus... If they are just waiting they are not a passenger.
So I think anyone who can actually splash mud on a bus passenger should be given a $125 reward in my books.
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I Supported Toymods
Location: Sydney
Registered: December 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Sun, 21 March 2004 03:34
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Did you guys also know that in NSW you can't even fish (anywhere!) without a fishing license... you can get fined just for holding a rod without a license.
There are so many BS laws coming out these days... and our government sells all our stuff anyway...
e.g.
1.) Sydney water is French owned
2.) Our train system was sold to a private company and then the private company sold the "unprofitable" public transport section back to our govt and kept the profitable freight section.
3.) Telstra has been privatised
4.) Ambulances have been privatised and now the govt is going to make a "paramedic" section which runs along side the fire brigade so as the Ambo's don't have to hang around at car rescues etc. (i.e. the unprofitable bit)
5.) Australia's C1 "Defence and communications satellite" is owned by Optus and only shows high quality programming such as Foxtel and Austar...
Sorry guys but I really get shitted off at these changes our govt keeps making.
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Registered: November 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Sun, 21 March 2004 08:29
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Whats the fine for riding a muddy scooter in a funeral which is being video'd by an unhelmeted corpse outside of proper hours???...mad just mad....
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Location: Epping NSW
Registered: October 2002
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Mon, 22 March 2004 04:16
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Although i in no way support the harshness of the road law in NSW (believe me, i've paid a fair amount to Mr Carr in speedings fines), let's try and focus on the positives:
1) For once the emphasis is not on speeding: it seems that the government is finally realising that people who drive below the speed limit aren't necessarily better drivers.
2) Increased fine for "Close following" ie tailgating: how many times have reckless idiots in their 4wds/company commodores/falcons sat on our asses putting our lives and precious vehicles in danger?
3) Worksite speed limits: These guys are putting their lives on the line working out there most people ignore the 40km/h signs. This seems reasonable to me.
4) Drive vehicle with TV/VDU image likely to distract: I don't care how safe your SAAB/BMW/Merc/Volvo is, watching TV and driving just don't mix.
apart from those, i agree with you all that there are some stupid offences listed in there, it will make it even easier for a cop with a grudge to book you for just about anything they can dream up.
hobz
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Location: Brisbane, QLD
Registered: February 2003
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal
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Tue, 23 March 2004 09:46
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hobbs wrote on Mon, 22 March 2004 14:16 | Although i in no way support the harshness of the road law in NSW (believe me, i've paid a fair amount to Mr Carr in speedings fines), let's try and focus on the positives:
1) For once the emphasis is not on speeding: it seems that the government is finally realising that people who drive below the speed limit aren't necessarily better drivers.
2) Increased fine for "Close following" ie tailgating: how many times have reckless idiots in their 4wds/company commodores/falcons sat on our asses putting our lives and precious vehicles in danger?
3) Worksite speed limits: These guys are putting their lives on the line working out there most people ignore the 40km/h signs. This seems reasonable to me.
4) Drive vehicle with TV/VDU image likely to distract: I don't care how safe your SAAB/BMW/Merc/Volvo is, watching TV and driving just don't mix.
apart from those, i agree with you all that there are some stupid offences listed in there, it will make it even easier for a cop with a grudge to book you for just about anything they can dream up.
hobz
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very intelligent reply
i agree with everything said here
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