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DannyGT4
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May 2002
 
New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 09:03 Go to next message
The NSW Government in all their wisdom is proposing that the demerit point system and fines be reviewed - in summary, to make them harsher!

Some of the fines are looking at doubling Sad


A summary of the proposal is.... here

and the actual proposal is.... here


Instead of 12 points we'll be working off 15... but we're gonna need them all.

Here's a sample of some changes...

Offence - Previous fine/points - New fine/points

Stop on/near pedestrian crossing - $226/ no points - $225/3 points.
Obscured/defaced/illegible number plate - $76/no points - $300/3 points.
Drive vehicle with speed evasion article - $1173/no points - $1175/9 points.
Unsafe towing - $76-127/no points - $300/3 points.
Passenger safety e.g. tow trailer with person in/on trailer - $74-76/no points - $225/3 points.


Have a read... not happy Sad


They can have my comment for sure.

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NickAE86
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
"well structured" indeed....pfft No No No

how the hell can they justify fine increases...esp the obscured number plate. What warrants a $224 increase when other offences have only increased the number of demerit points

blantant revenue rasining imo

Quote:

The submissions to the demerit point review made it clear the public wanted penalties to be fair, Mr Scully said


i dont think any member of the public would deem it fair that they now pay more and loose more points for the same offence. Ok so they make some good points about how it reflects on safety and so forth...but wheres the logic in:

Quote:

Obscured/defaced/illegible number plate - $76/no points - $300/3 points


friggin government makes me so angry *grr*

Mad
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dimmy77_03
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pffft!!! They get smarter each day dont they? We should organise a protest or something that its puely a REVENUE RAISER Twisted Evil

Shocked
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rthy
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January 2004
wtf is a jabber? a punch line?
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
how do you 'protest' against something like this? drive 6 in a 60zone?
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
they are a friggn joke.

I am mad.

very mad.

yeah, i will join the "6" in a "60" zone brigade..

what can we do?
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boris
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I supported Toymods
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
get some stickers made up for your cars and drive around 6 in a 60 zone, when you get booked ring ACA or Today Tonight Very Happy
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alwaysRA23
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August 2002
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 13:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thats sucks and blows all at the same time.... No No No
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DannyGT4
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
check out the pdf and take the time to read the hundreds of offences (some new)... how bout these >>>>>



# Drive vehicle with TV/VDU image likely to distract ---- (proposed) fine $225 and loss 3 points

# Use wheeled toy on road at prohibited time ----- $50 fine

# Not keep left when using wheeled device/toy ----- $50 fine

[lol]

# Ride motor bike with 4 or more unhelmeted passengers (rider not
helmeted) ----- fine $1185

# Splash mud on bus passenger ---- $125 fine

# Interrupt funeral procession ---- $75 fine


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clubagreenie
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
That's it, I'm going out to find a funeral procession, do 6 in front of it in a 60 zone on my motorbike with 4 passangers, all of us without helmets, past a bus stop in the rain with a plasma screen m ounted on the front.

I'M SCREWED! Laughing
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

# Splash mud on bus passenger ---- $125 fine



hahahaha NOOOO ruining all my fun Evil or Very Mad

but serious, they will be telling us when to breath next.

I am over this.

NSW ALREADY has the most stringent fine system of any state, and THIS?

It is like they are running a profit-oriented business yet this business has the power to price-hike and not 'lose' customers the way a normal business obviously would.

damm it they should learn some public relations rather than just how to increase the directors payments. I have never received a "survey" from the just to ascertain how me, part of the 'silent' (for the most part) feels about proposed changes.

is is usually a vocal minority (read anal old people and mainly company directors) who affect changes so we suffer while they make laws with no reference to the people it most affects.

friggn idiots
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THE WITZL
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Toymods Social Secretary

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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Wed, 17 March 2004 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You know what the best part is....

Carl Scully doesnt drive. He has a private chaufer.

I have said it before and ill say it again. If i ever saw this cock sucker in person, i would make it my duty to voice my opinions personally to him, with extreme predjudice.

Now im going to go out and play with my wheeled toy while im still allowed to??????
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Benjamin
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I believe that demerit points should only be given to actual driving offences like driving too fast, negligent or dangerously. I don't see why driving with a dirty or obscured number plate has anything to do with my driving ability. That is a defectable item. If I get caught with it after being defected, sure take demerits then.
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Benjamin
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
And a wheeled toy, is that R/C cars and stuff?

What about a R/C Tank. Its not wheeled is it??
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I can't call them laws anymore they are ridiculous.. I don't know about you but I feel increasingly like I am living in a communist state

Part of living in a democratic free state is the right to make mistakes and stuff up if we feel like it.

yes, not if it affects people, BUT since WHEN did having a dirty/bent numberplate equate to hurting others
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CrUZsida
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I supported Toymods

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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:27

BUT since WHEN did having a dirty/bent numberplate equate to hurting others

Its not that, its the fact that sooooooooooo many ppl out there purposely bend or don't clean their plates, so that when they get flashed, the camera cant see the whole plate, and therefore they cant fine the driver.
I think that fine is a good idea, but maybe a warning should be issuedd first. If somebody backs into your car, and bends the plates, and you don't see it, its not your fault. Tho, as a responsible driver, you are expected to do a check of your car before you drive it, make sure there are no babies under your tyres etc etc etc.

The law that has me fucked is

Quote:

# Ride motor bike with 4 or more unhelmeted passengers (rider not helmeted) ----- fine $1185

Ok, since when can you get more than 2 ppl on a motorbike? Is WA missing out on something here?

And what about the trike limo we have here (somebody took a 1930's car, cut off the front, extended the rear, and bolted up a trike to it). It seats about 8, so do they NEED helmets?
If so, that would be a hefty fine for the rider
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

Its not that, its the fact that sooooooooooo many ppl out there purposely bend or don't clean their plates, so that when they get flashed, the camera cant see the whole plate, and therefore they cant fine the driver.



yeah but dude did you see the fines/points? absolutely stupid. the law needs to be appropriate otherwise people get angry.
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CrUZsida
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I supported Toymods

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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 01:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:58

Quote:

Its not that, its the fact that sooooooooooo many ppl out there purposely bend or don't clean their plates, so that when they get flashed, the camera cant see the whole plate, and therefore they cant fine the driver.



yeah but dude did you see the fines/points? absolutely stupid. the law needs to be appropriate otherwise people get angry.

Actually, that fine seems appropriate to me. Think of how many fines you'd skip if your plates weren't visible. Probably 1000's of dollars worth.
But as I said, they'd need to issue a warning first
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
but they don't indicate a one-warning system in the law there do they?

next thing I will be up the creek $1000 because one of my numberplate lights blew and the copper couldn't see my plate. now who is to judge whether I did that on purpose or not.

see cars are not made of titanium, and even if they were, they would still brake, bend etc and the law needs to account for this. explicitly otherwise it creates a very unfair system where people who are innocent will be penalised along with the guilty minority.

I know LOTS of plates (esp some of the older yellow ones) through no fault of the driver (actually fault of poor manufacturing) have faded to almost illegible.

now the ball is in the indivuals court to go to the RTA and PAY to have some new plates made according to the pink slip place.

under this system he will get fined for something that was the RTAs lack of quality control procedures.
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CrUZsida
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I supported Toymods

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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 01:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

I know LOTS of plates (esp some of the older yellow ones) through no fault of the driver (actually fault of poor manufacturing) have faded to almost illegible

That goes straight back on the drivers/owners responsibility of upkeeping his/her car.

If your windscreen get dirty from the car in front in your throwing oil from his exhuast, do you not clean it becuase its through no fault of yours?
If your tyres go bald do you not change them?
If the sun goes down/drive through a tunnel do you not turn your lights on?

Its part of a drivers responsibility that his/her car is legal and safe at all times.

I agree with you about the number plate lights tho.
Thats why I am saying that they need to issue a warning system first. You get one warning per item, and one day to fix it.
If you get pulled over 2 days later and you number plate lights are still not working, you wear the fine.
etc etc etc
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mate the car has been immaculately looked after, but I would be slightly irritated if I got lost 1/4 of my license and $300 for a relatively new number plate which has had the paint fade and crack despite the car having the best of care, not to mention having to already pay for some new plates.

like I said all along, and you have been saying, a warning system first round would be a step in the right direction

and like I said, the law needs to account for the fact that cars are not invincible and get dirty as you so accurately pointed out Smile and dented, and old etc. not just blanket everyone as a "criminal" because their numberplate is hard to read.

Just as it is our responsibility to change our rego stickers, so it should be to make sure our number plates are clearly visible. But I don't think it is the equivalent of driving you know like 90 in a 60 zone.

damm we will be fined for a dirty windscreen soon though if this keeps up Smile

reasonable laws = happy populace
irrational laws = irritated populace

I am irritated

(a growing irritation I might add over several years of inneffective strategies by the police to keep people under the thumb while enjoying record revenue with no decrease in road deaths/accidents)
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CrUZsida
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I supported Toymods

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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

damm we will be fined for a dirty windscreen soon though if this keeps up

Umm, if you check you current road laws, I think you'll find out that you CAN already be fined for a dirty windscreen
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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oh.

good thing I like seeing through my windscreen enough to keep it pretty clean haha

I am having trouble keeping track of all these laws. I will have trouble keeping my perfect record for another 50 years. heehee

Ignorance it seems = $$$ for the local enforcers

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dimmy77_03
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clubagreenie wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:14

That's it, I'm going out to find a funeral procession, do 6 in front of it in a 60 zone on my motorbike with 4 passangers, all of us without helmets, past a bus stop in the rain with a plasma screen m ounted on the front.

I'M SCREWED! Laughing


Laughing Let's do it!!! Dont forget to splash mud on the people at the bus stop Razz
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coronamark2
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Location:
Perth
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May 2003
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 03:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What kind of find do you think you would get in this scenario:

Me & 3 mates where bored driving around in the corona

So i told my mate to change gears for me i just told him when the clutch was in/out then i told my mate in the back to steer so all i was doing was the pedals, we were caking our self laughing

(done in a controlled enviroment)


Could you imagine if a copper saw you doing that Laughing
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CrUZsida
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I supported Toymods

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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 03:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The list of fines would be as long as my ... arm
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Billy-Mason PI
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July 2003
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 05:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
There is one fine they need to add is Tailgating. I know it comes under Neg Driviing but they need to separate it to deter people.

Make the fine $5,458 and your whole licence. Rolling

F**k tailgaters Surprised
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Cyber-punk
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 05:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 11:05

but they don't indicate a one-warning system in the law there do they?

next thing I will be up the creek $1000 because one of my numberplate lights blew and the copper couldn't see my plate. now who is to judge whether I did that on purpose or not.





then you take it to the magistrates court and contest your fine
you should get off if its for a blown light bulb
unless you are a complete idiot(like so many are) who abuse the shit out of cops\magistrates when they are fined, or make excuses

best thign to do when fined is say nothing, if asked to comment on the fine\offer explanation do not as this may indicate guilt.
i've gotten out of a few speeding tickets and a wreckless driving charge Razz
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clubagreenie
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dimmy77_03 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 13:35

clubagreenie wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:14

That's it, I'm going out to find a funeral procession, do 6 in front of it in a 60 zone on my motorbike with 4 passangers, all of us without helmets, past a bus stop in the rain with a plasma screen m ounted on the front.

I'M SCREWED! Laughing


Laughing Let's do it!!! Dont forget to splash mud on the people at the bus stop Razz



Hence the rain.

My crown has original no plates, a bit faded but repainteble but fucked if I'm PAYING to have them replaced with something non period. Unless I go historic rego, = cheap.
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biased99
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 08:47

Quote:

# Splash mud on bus passenger ---- $125 fine






damm it they should learn some public relations rather than just how to increase the directors payments. I have never received a "survey" from the just to ascertain how me, part of the 'silent' (for the most part) feels about proposed changes.

is is usually a vocal minority (read anal old people and mainly company directors) who affect changes so we suffer while they make laws with no reference to the people it most affects.

friggn idiots



Having spoken (at some length) to the bloke who will actually be receiving/processing the "public comments", I can vouch for the fact that the majority will indeed, remain "silent". (He intimated that they had received around 40-odd public submissions up to today - the cut-off for such submissions is tommorrow.

A "fait acompli"?

Probably...


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RobST162
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I will be silent no longer! lol

dude if you can provide me his email I will type a thoughtful and polite (I am serious here) letter tomorrow

Cheers

Rob
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hotrolla
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Thu, 18 March 2004 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If these new rules start up i might just have to start walking or just get a scooter so i can scoot my way to work and back.
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CrUZsida
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I supported Toymods

Location:
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November 2003
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Sat, 20 March 2004 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RobST162 wrote on Thu, 18 March 2004 09:27

Just as it is our responsibility to change our rego stickers, so it should be to make sure our number plates are clearly visible.

Just so you know Rob, this is how the law stands in WA, and I'd presume it is the same for the rest of country
Quote:

By law, motorists are responsible for returning any number plates that is damaged or dilapitated and illegible to the licensing authority. Motorists were required to secure a new set of plates.

If you fail to do so and drive around with damaged plates on your car, you may be fined.
It is also the responibility of motorists to keep the number plates on vehicles clean so they can be read.Failure to do so will result in a fine.

Also obscuring plates with towballs or plastic films on covers were also an offence.
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Toobs
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Sun, 21 March 2004 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Think about it... How could you possibly splash mud on a bus passenger?

If they are a passenger they are ALREADY on the bus... If they are just waiting they are not a passenger.

So I think anyone who can actually splash mud on a bus passenger should be given a $125 reward in my books.
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Toobs
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Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Sun, 21 March 2004 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Did you guys also know that in NSW you can't even fish (anywhere!) without a fishing license... you can get fined just for holding a rod without a license.

There are so many BS laws coming out these days... and our government sells all our stuff anyway...

e.g.
1.) Sydney water is French owned
2.) Our train system was sold to a private company and then the private company sold the "unprofitable" public transport section back to our govt and kept the profitable freight section.
3.) Telstra has been privatised
4.) Ambulances have been privatised and now the govt is going to make a "paramedic" section which runs along side the fire brigade so as the Ambo's don't have to hang around at car rescues etc. (i.e. the unprofitable bit)
5.) Australia's C1 "Defence and communications satellite" is owned by Optus and only shows high quality programming such as Foxtel and Austar...

Sorry guys but I really get shitted off at these changes our govt keeps making.
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Greg.
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Registered:
November 2003
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Sun, 21 March 2004 08:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Whats the fine for riding a muddy scooter in a funeral which is being video'd by an unhelmeted corpse outside of proper hours???...mad just mad....
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hobbs
Regular


Location:
Epping NSW
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October 2002
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Mon, 22 March 2004 04:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Although i in no way support the harshness of the road law in NSW (believe me, i've paid a fair amount to Mr Carr in speedings fines), let's try and focus on the positives:

1) For once the emphasis is not on speeding: it seems that the government is finally realising that people who drive below the speed limit aren't necessarily better drivers.

2) Increased fine for "Close following" ie tailgating: how many times have reckless idiots in their 4wds/company commodores/falcons sat on our asses putting our lives and precious vehicles in danger?

3) Worksite speed limits: These guys are putting their lives on the line working out there most people ignore the 40km/h signs. This seems reasonable to me.

4) Drive vehicle with TV/VDU image likely to distract: I don't care how safe your SAAB/BMW/Merc/Volvo is, watching TV and driving just don't mix.

apart from those, i agree with you all that there are some stupid offences listed in there, it will make it even easier for a cop with a grudge to book you for just about anything they can dream up.

hobz
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Cyber-punk
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Location:
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February 2003
 
Re: New Demerit Point Scheme Proposal Tue, 23 March 2004 09:46 Go to previous message
hobbs wrote on Mon, 22 March 2004 14:16

Although i in no way support the harshness of the road law in NSW (believe me, i've paid a fair amount to Mr Carr in speedings fines), let's try and focus on the positives:

1) For once the emphasis is not on speeding: it seems that the government is finally realising that people who drive below the speed limit aren't necessarily better drivers.

2) Increased fine for "Close following" ie tailgating: how many times have reckless idiots in their 4wds/company commodores/falcons sat on our asses putting our lives and precious vehicles in danger?

3) Worksite speed limits: These guys are putting their lives on the line working out there most people ignore the 40km/h signs. This seems reasonable to me.

4) Drive vehicle with TV/VDU image likely to distract: I don't care how safe your SAAB/BMW/Merc/Volvo is, watching TV and driving just don't mix.

apart from those, i agree with you all that there are some stupid offences listed in there, it will make it even easier for a cop with a grudge to book you for just about anything they can dream up.

hobz




very intelligent reply
i agree with everything said here
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