| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: internals of the 3TGTEU
|
Fri, 19 March 2004 01:03
 
|
 |
Hi Tanman, sorry to hear that your 3T-GTE isn't too healthy at the moment... but I guess it gives a good excuse to upgrade!
I have seen a few 3T-GTEs blow a piston cylinder #3, & others on #1. I think there a way too many factors to determine why a particular cylinder may blow... I'd say it would be more worthwhile in working out how to prevent it happening in the first place though.
At least the one good thing about the 3T-GTE when it blows a piston, it does it "nicely" so that you don't end up destroying a whole heap of other things.
I'd say your planned modifications sound like the making of a strong engine to me. I would probably choose a different turbo, but it all depends on your budget & what you want to do with it.
To answer your questions, it would be good to know what you are going to be using the car for & some rough idea on how much you are willing to spend on things.
In general though:
1) Sump - The 3T-GTE has a pretty good oil supply system, the key here would be to make sure any crank "windage" is kept to a minimum & to make sure you always have a good pickup of oil, that is if you are planning to be going around corners fast, you would want to make sure oil isn't going to "slosh" around too much.
Depending on what you are planning to do with the car, there are a few things you could do here to ensure a good oil flow under all conditions.
2) Fuel rail - I am currently designing a direct LPG injection fuel rail for my 3T-GTE. There are a few factors that need to be considered here, for me heat is a big problem & can cause the LPG to start vapourising eariler than expected.
I would say though that the standard 3T-GTE rail should be able to handle the fuel supply at around normal fuel pressure.
Once again, depends on what you are planning to do.. for example running a 1.x:1 Malpassi can add extra factors to fuel rail & distribution requirements.
3) Inlet volume size, I would focus on air velocity first.
Just remember the 300ft/sec rule.. you don't want to get your airspeed any higher than this.
First you need to calculate calculate your total engine's airspeed = (cid x rpm x 0.5 x Ev) / 1728
So for your engine:
cid = 110 (Standard 3T-GTE)
rpm = 7000 (you could go higher or lower)
Ev = .85 (lets say that you have a well designed engine)
That would mean the airspeed for a naturally aspirated 3T-GTE would be around 190 cfm.
If you were running 1bar boost, you need to add the pressure ratio of 2 (give or take for efficiencies)
So that would give you an airspeed for a turboed 3T-GTE of 380 cfm
Now to caluclate what the air velocity would be through your throttle body lets say its 65mm (2.559").
Using Pr2 to give the section area, you get 4.019 inches 2
You work out air velocity by = airflow rate (seconds) / section area.
So for your engine with 380cfm that would be:
(380/60) / (4.019 /144)
= 6.3 / .02791488
= 225 ft/sec which is good.
If you had a 40 mm throttle body at the same cc & boost it would be 366 ft/sec which is too fast.
So do some maths, & get this right first. You will need to work out your:
Cubic Capacity
Redline
Boost
& then go from there.
I just realised this has been a very long post... I hope you made it this far, & found it somewhat useful. 
Cheers,
3T-GTE
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: internals of the 3TGTEU
|
Fri, 19 March 2004 03:06
|
|
I already own the turbo. Which is from a single turbo VG30 engine, it was rebuilt and had it's ceramic exhaust wheel changed to a steel item about 1000km ago. So for now it will stay.
The car is intended for weekend/very occasionaly track day use.
Power goal at this stage is at least 150RWKW. The maximum boost this engine will see is about 20PSI.
There are certainly a large number of factors to consider when designing an intake manifold, runner length, volume, turbulance and airspeed are just a few. Unfortunately I dont have the resources or time to trial different manifold designs. The stock plenum and TB size on a 3TGTE is definetly on the small side. I know of someone who designed an intake manifold for a race car as a uni project, hopefully he can give me hand.
I guess the sump should be fine as long as the engine is not subjected to extended high RPM use.
3T-GTE: I am interested in the specs of your engine
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: internals of the 3TGTEU
|
Fri, 19 March 2004 03:16
|
|
To save typing here is some history on my vehicle... 
Going back a couple of years ago I was crazy enough to squish a 1JZ into my TA-22, & as a result had a lot modifications to do, just to get the damn thing to fit.
In the end (after a lot of trial & error) I had the following results:
It was a series 2 1JZ according to this article
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s= &threadid=143293
- Dual Dump Pipes
- 3" exhaust
- Custom made Bar & Plate FMIC
- MoTec M48 ECU (& some serious tuning work put in both on the road / racetracks & the dyno)
- Larger injectors from memory they were 550cc
- CT12A's had the wastegate removed (used external wastegate instead)
- Single external wastegate -using custom fabricated a spacers before turbos (Yes it does work)
- Ran consistant low 12s, a best 12.071 @ 114mph (Yokahama Formula-R tyres) - was mainly set up as a circuit racer, so probably could have gone better.
- Produced 237rwkw @ 18psi (1.2 bar) boost
- All squeezed into a TA-22 mounted up to a W58, with a custom Hilux rear end.. (amongst a million other mods)
Unfortunately, I needed some cash to fund another project, so I sold the engine/FMIC/ECU/Pumps/Looms etc to an importer (shall remain nameless) for $7000.00 plus a swap of some other parts I needed - like a 3T-GTE that I have in it now.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: internals of the 3TGTEU
|
Fri, 19 March 2004 03:46
|
|
Currently I am running a 3T-GTE... nothing special.. more experimental than anything..
Did this about 7 years ago, so I am not 100% sure on this.
- Rebuilt engine with forgies & total seal rings
- Played around with cleaning up the head, match ported manifolds
- Custom made Throttle Body, running GasResearch LPG setup
- Still standard turbo at this stage
- Custom made water to air intercooler
- 3" exhaust
- Last dynoed in Feb 2000 - 181rwhp (135rwkw) @ 12 psi(I think it was 12, may have been more or less)
So nothing special - but should improve considerably with bigger turbo
It has been sitting in my shed for the last 5 years, just starting it up & giving it a run every now & then... I have been very busy on a few other projects, but I am resurrecting it now to go out & have some fun.
I am currently looking at upgrading the turbo & experimenting with Direct / Raw LPG injection setup ... just for something fun
There is something about this car for me... it has almost been caught in a time-trap, as I haven't done more mods to it for many years, I am now ready to pick up where I left all those years ago.
It must be my sentimental side coming through as there are plenty of other tough machines I have built up & sold off (RX3, &7s,1J supras, nice HK monaro with a full on 350, 4WDs, etc, etc..) but I have always kept this one.
I'd say your goal of 150rwkw should be really easy to get with the 3T-GTE & the right tuning.
I know YellowRolla has made over 190rwkw (255rwhp) out of his 3T-GTE.
[Updated on: Fri, 19 March 2004 04:00]
|
|
|
Location:
Christchurch, New Zealand
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: internals of the 3TGTEU
|
Fri, 23 April 2004 02:20
|
|
<quote>
Ross 20 thou oversize forged pistons
porting of the cylinder head (standard valves)
ARP rod bolts and head studs
Custom T3 turbo on modified ported stock manifold
Custom inlet manifold using XF 65mm TB
RX7 S5 550cc intectors
<quote>
This is extremly similar spec to what Im going to be running,
I have ross 1.5 over (86.5mm) pistons and rings
new bearings etc, stress relived rods, shotpeened.
Very modified intake valves(from standard)
Standard exhaust valves.
2tgue (88262) head, rebuilt, port matched, tidy up of casting marks and reduction of lumps on short side radius and around valve guides...
port manifold with t3 flange and vg30 turbo
(Hear say have been told is good for 400ish hp, dont know personally, but good enuf for me)
Custom plenum on standard runners, yet to choose/find TB.
EVO size HKS intercooler, bosch BOV, link comp...
When you get yours sorted be interesting to know how it goes. My last build with 3tg head and .48 old skool t3 made 112kw at wheels at 6 psi...
How much did the ARP's sting ya? I haddnt consider upgrading these till now.
Cheers
Logan
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: internals of the 3TGTEU
|
Fri, 23 April 2004 03:07
|
|
Guys, I'm glad to see people are still playing with the mighty 3T, especially a fellow novocastrian.
My experience with my 3T, had a oil line blow off about 6 years ago and no one could tell me if or how bad I may have damaged the motor without pulling it down, and then once it was pulled down you may as well rebuild it. I had the only local guy who wasn't affraid of rebuilding one of these do the work and I happily motored along for the next 2 years. Then lost compression in no 3 cylinder. Was told if I was lucky it may only be valve problems, but after having the head done we worked out it was the piston. But what I was even more pissed of about was when we pulled the pistons out we discovered that the workshop who had rebuilt it used N/A pistons (by this time that workshop owner had retired and closed its doors).So the car sat for the next 18 months while I got the money together to rebuild it. This time I sourced all the componets for the rebuild myself pretty much the same as you guys, ROSS forged pistons, gapless rings, JE pins, geniue toyota bearings, etc. Also o ringed block/head, 2mm copper head gasket, mitsi TD05 turbo and has been going strong since. Most recent changes (past 18 months) have been big front mount intercooler, forward facing TB and relocating air flow meter to turbo side of the motor. But I have now reached the limits of the factory ICU and injectors (running about 13psi) and need to upgrade to after market to progress.
[Updated on: Fri, 23 April 2004 03:09]
|
|
|
