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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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4AG manifold insulators
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Fri, 19 March 2004 12:10
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I had a good chat to a guy from a plastics place today, regarding getting a plastic insulator plate cut to sandwich between the inlet manifold and head on a 4AG. Is there anyone who might interested as well? It would be better value to get a number of these things cut rather than just the one. I have a choice of either phenolic plastic, or teflon. The phenolic is rated to 120 degrees, whereas the teflon is rated to 250ish. Is anyone interested? If so, let me know, and I can work out a price. 
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Fri, 19 March 2004 15:34
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How thick would it be?
I'd be interested to see how much it would cost, I scrounged sone 1/2" phenolic sheet from work & made myself one but it's a pretty rough job, I wouldn't mind one that was a bit beter made.
I highly recommend it too, the reduction in manifold/plenum temps is huge, mine was always cold to the touch. Except near the throttle body, so I'll be pissing off that coolant connection to it, either remote mounting the cold idle valve or gettibg rid of it altogether.
What's the teflon sheet like, I've never seen or heard of it before?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sat, 20 March 2004 10:43
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I was thinking of making them 12mm thick, unless anyone else has other ideas?
The teflon stuff is clean white looking, fairly shiny, and fairly hard. Kind of looks like a marble kitchen bench, without the marble bits, get what I mean? 
I'll give it a couple of days to see if anyone else is interested, then I'll take the pattern down to the guy and get a more precise quote.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sat, 20 March 2004 10:54
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Bakerlite is the best thermal insulator for use in between manifolds . Just look under the covers on the V8 supercars , if you have the access ..
Very good idea Mrshin , that a huge difference on those engines , if you make them i know three people that will need one ..
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sat, 20 March 2004 11:06
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Phenolic is what all the commercial ones are made from.
There is no need for the extra high-temp properties of the teflon.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sat, 20 March 2004 11:49
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Yep, i would be in for that, just depending on the cost.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sat, 20 March 2004 12:10
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Yeah, I know that teflon isn't normally used, I'm just going to price it up and see what the difference is in cost. At this stage I'll work on making about 10 of them and find out the cost
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sun, 21 March 2004 01:08
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Yeah, I intend to find out more about insulating properties, even get some bits of the stuff and test it myself. As for collecting bakelite, uhmmm, errr, well, yes I can name a couple of people fascinated by the stuff. And yes, they're quasi-poms...
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sun, 21 March 2004 05:11
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i'm interested....depending on price 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sun, 21 March 2004 22:47
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interested depending on price, are you getting them made for teh smallport or bigport?
in a perfect world i would like to get spacers made up from aluminium in the same thicknes, to compare the power increase you would get just from increasing the length of the inlet tract,
this idea is still a good one, can't do any harm.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Mon, 22 March 2004 01:12
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I'm up for one too, if it suits a bigport 4AG. Could you port them with a dremel to match your manifold & head?
Cheers
Phil
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Location:
Menai area of Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Mon, 22 March 2004 09:14
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Interested in getting 1 x bigport and 1 x smallport depending on price.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Mon, 22 March 2004 12:07
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I was initially going to make bigport ones, but if a few people are interested could get some smallport ones too, I suppose!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Mon, 22 March 2004 12:20
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I would want a small port for one.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Tue, 23 March 2004 04:43
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id be interested in a smallport one if the cost was 50 bucks or less, dunno if that is unrealistic, whats teflon worth these days?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Wed, 24 March 2004 12:16
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Hopefully should have time to talk to the guy in the morning, and finally have some $ amounts to quote
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Thu, 25 March 2004 11:34
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I went and had a little chat to him today, discovered that teflon is unreasonably expensive... Bugger! Anyway, the bakelite is a much more realistic proposition, so long as 5 people buy them we're looking at $60 each. Anyone interested?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Thu, 25 March 2004 12:44
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If its for the Smallport i would be very interested.
What may be good is to get them made for the smallport, and then people can enlarge them. Or get a certain number of both made, wouldnt be too much difference on the lathe.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Fri, 26 March 2004 05:17
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Whats the difference between phenolic plastic and bakelite?
I am still interested, but need specific thickness, as manifold clearance may be an issue.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Fri, 26 March 2004 06:42
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im going to have to back out mrshin, dont want anything in my car that british radios used to be made out of
i may have a source of teflon though, will have to look into it "some day"
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Fri, 26 March 2004 10:10
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I was going to go for 10mm thickness, unless anyone has any objections to this As for big/smallport, sure, let's just get a few people interested and keep the price good SPREAD THE WORD! 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sat, 27 March 2004 23:23
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*bump, in the process knocking down some ancient chinaware that smashes with incredible noise, disturbing the sleeping cat. The cat jumps up frightened, knocking the hair dryer into the bathtub, before itself falling in too. See? my stories ALWAYS have a happy ending...*
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Sun, 28 March 2004 02:25
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Poor poor kitty 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Wed, 31 March 2004 23:18
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Ahhh well, I take it for granted that nobody's interested!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Thu, 01 April 2004 02:03
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I am
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Thu, 01 April 2004 02:28
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Sorry mate, I just spent the other day matchporting my spacers to my manifold, & after all that effort, I think I'll stick with my bodgy ones.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4AG manifold insulators
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Thu, 01 April 2004 05:35
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thermal conductivities
http://imartinez.etsin.upm.es/dat1/eSol.htm
Bakelite (tm) = 17 W/(m K)
Teflon (tm) = 0.30 W/(m K)
and a few for reference..
aluminium = 210
asbestos = 0.17
glass, about = 1
diamond = 2000 !!!!!!!!!
PVC = 0.10
so there ya go, Teflon would be 57 times less thermally conductive than Bakelite...... and maybe 57 times mroe exxy too  heh heh...
then agin, you need a thinner sheet of teflon to achieve the same effect as 10mm bakelite too!! 5mm of teflon would be a pretty good thermal barrier.
Cya, Stewart
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