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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 06:27
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hey guys, today i was at a place where im planning on getting my solexs tuned and i saw a 1991 celica out the back. apparently it has a blown motor and has been sitting there for ages.
so, i got to thinking 
the paint work is dull as dull, absolutely dull, obviously, but if the rest is reasonably straight, give me a ball park figure on how much you guys would pay for it?
also, what would be my options for a reasonably straight forward engine swap? id be wanting something quick....are gt4 motors insanely dear?
thanks, grant
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 06:58
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if the motors shot - offer him say 3.5 - 4 grand to take it off his hands ( if the bodys good - basically buy it as a rolling complete shell..
Re gt4 motors - you could buy mine for under a grand if you dont mind sourcing the rest of the bits for the conversion .. ( gearbox to suit , clutch to suit , driveshafts etc )
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:01
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oh - outside of a 3sgte ( gt4 motor ) a 3sge ( st162 motor ) motor would be the next best swap and would bolt in as far as i know - you may need to swap radiator hoses off memory ..
Excellent budget type upgrade if you cannot afford a turbo swap
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:09
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hmm, well, how fast would a stock gt4 motor make the car go over a qt mile? so would a gt4 be the optimum motor swap in terms of motors that will bolt straight in?
how fast will a 3sge make it go over a qt mile? and how much would i be expecting to pay for one those motors?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:21
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a Gt4 does a stock Quarter mile in about 15 and a bit seconds ..
id assume a FWD one would be similar IF you can get the traction down
3sge dollar wise ould be ALOT cheaper as you could use your existing gearbox/clutch/loom i think ..They are still a brisk motor that can run hard
3sgte will go in - BUT you have to modify your gearbox , and driveshafts - for starters , thats where the money starts adding up .. youd also need to upgrade your fuel delivery system i think
Ask Draza re the conversion , hes done it in a st162 ..
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:36
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allrighty, ill have to sus out how much he wants for the car first...on autotrader there is complete 1991 celicas running and stuff for 5000 to 6000 in nsw and qld, so would you still condone paying around 3 grand for a rolling body?
if i wacked a gt4 motor in it, does that instantly mean i must change the gearbox loom etc? how available, expensive is that? approx how much would i be looking at if i took this avenue?
obviously, the gt4 has much more performance potential than the 3s right?
thanks for the help 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:42
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theres a good whack of pwer difference between the two - but yes you will have to upgrade alot of the systems to accomdate the gt4 motor - a front brake upgrade wouldnt go astray too if you were to go turbo ..
to do the swap wouldnt be cheap for a 3sgte .. by the time you put it all together you could have bought a gt4 like mine ( less mods ofcourse )
id look at a 3sge swap before a 3sgte swap for the simple fact its cheaper and basically " bolt in "
With decent cams , and a nicer exhaust - it would be pretty punchy for an NA car ..
Ive driven a number of 3sge powered FWD celicas and they are ALOT of fun , very responsive too ..
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:46
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hmm ok, so, the gt4 motor is the 3sgte? and id be looking for just a 3sge? what is the motor that comes in the standard celicas? and what is a 3sge out of? how readily available are they and how much approx?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:51
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the 3sgte is the GT4 motor ( t stands for turbo )
3sge came out in the st162 celicas - thats the model BEFORE the one your looking at
Price wise i have o idea ..
a gt4 frontcut is about 2500 - but at a guess youd only really need the motor ..
Give toyospares in melb a call they should be able to give you a price on the motor complete
The 1991 celica came out with a 5sfe - thats a 2.2 litre econo- twin cam head
the 3sge is a 2 litre performance proper twin cam motor .
the 5sfe is sluggish, designed for economy - 3sge revs better and is punchier ..
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 07:58
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right, so is the 3sge, is that a gtf version of the st162? or is it simply a bit better tuned than the standard economy motor in that version? if it is not a gt4 motor, purely for interest sake, what type of motor did the gt4 have in the st162 celica model? they had a gt4 right..how did they go?
if i happened to buy the car, do you think it is a far better option wacking in a 3sge rather than just replacing the stuffed motor with another standard one?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 08:10
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ok - the earlier gt4 you mentioned was the st165 .. it had a 3sgte in it too
All gt4's were 3sgte powered, be it st165 , st185 ( mine ) or st205
the st162 was the front wheel drive version , powered by the 3sge motor
the st184 - what your looking at - has a 5sfe motor, its basically a stroked economy camry motor - not very exciting to sty the least
the F series heads were a Pseudo twin cam - ie - not a true twin cam setup like the G series heads
Personally i think a 3sge would be good in the st184 , IF you decided to get it .. though without knowing the cost of the motor - dollars wise - i cant say if it would be the best choice over whacking in another 5sfe..
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Fri, 26 March 2004 08:13
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allright, thanks for the help, ill let you know what happens
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 01:23
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you could have just asked me wyatty- i coulda told you all that. 
the 3s-ge is about 105kw, but you can always try and getting a gen II from a jap import wreckers, i think they were nearing 130kw??
they're out of the st162 SX- the ones i always say are "the fastest celicas"
but yeah 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 01:25
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hehe - you havent been in enough models of celicas Ryley - but the st162 is up there 
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 01:29
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you wanted me to say yours is the "fastest celica" didn't you 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 01:32
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oh theres faster than mine - but only a handful
a twin turbo V8 celica is Very hairyscary!
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 01:46
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| Classique71 wrote on Sat, 27 March 2004 12:32 |
a twin turbo V8 celica is Very hairyscary!
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and where would we find this?! 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 01:56
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ones in albury ( jamies ta22, with the lexus twin turbo v8 ) - the others in development
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 07:42
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Sat, 27 March 2004 12:23 |
you could have just asked me wyatty- i coulda told you all that.
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oh well, classique71 has done the swaps(you have, havent you?), information is information. And i got the usefull info on the 3sgte conversion, i wouldve got my heart set on that if i didnt get haulted so early....
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 08:18
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nahh i havent done the conversion , my 3sgte came factory fitted with all the upgraded components around it .. much easier to work with
i know a few guys who have though
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Location:
Sutherland, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 12:50
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| Evil_Foetus wrote on Sat, 27 March 2004 12:23 |
.....
they're out of the st162 SX- the ones i always say are "the fastest celicas"
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From experience, I found that my ST162 body shapes had a much higher terminal velocity speed than any other Celica I've owned. If you want to get more speed (but less tyre contact pressure on your front wheels!) take the 3 piece spoiler off. You'll get 225-230klm/h out of a well maintained standard ST162 with a decent windup. I did a run of nearly 30 mins at this speed, the 3S is a firecracker engine..bullet proof if treated right and oil changed and topped up regularly and always let it get to operating temp before hooning. Add a 3SGTE(exhaust/intake/EMS) (is there anything this engine can't do???) and you'll get near 270klm/h...but tape the rear wiper down over for over 250klm/h and maybe you should get bonnet pins :D
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 23:50
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Ooooooooor you could just buy a Gt4 like mine and have it all ready to rumble with the big boys:)
you know you want it * jedi hand sweep *
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sat, 27 March 2004 23:58
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My baby('91 MR2) has a 3SGE, I'm supposing thats a Gen II, anyway sings along oh so niclely. Victims thus far are an BMW 325(standing start) and a Audi A4 Quattro(both with rolling starts same speed, standing I think I woulda got cained).
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Sun, 28 March 2004 02:35
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my avatar looks like your avatar grant
ps. i think the mr2s had the gen 2 and 3 3s-ge...
and more news on that red thing?
a 3sge will go as hard as clintons seca, if not better...
what would we call it? the red bloodclot?
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Mon, 29 March 2004 04:10
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the red bloodfart.
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Mon, 29 March 2004 07:17
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classique, sorry, youve prolly already covered it, but i just need clarification on a couple more points.
ok, the model im looking at is the st184, it has the 5sfe motor, which is an economy camry motor - and is slow as shit.
im looking for a 3sge out of a st162 was it? (whatever, the model before the st184). OK, is the 3sge the SX version of st162? or is that the standard motor in all st162's?
also, what motor, or difference in the head is there on a st184 SX version compared to just the standard 5sfe. Are those motor/heads pacey?
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Mon, 29 March 2004 09:09
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all st184s had 5s-fe in them, even the SX ones (im pretty sure anyway), so i dont think there was any difference. i think the "sx" tag was just a trim code kinda thing. mind you i think the 5s-fe in a st184 is about as quick as the white stallion. the 5s is a 2.2 litre and the 3s is just a 2.0 litre.
the "f" in the engine code means twin cam- but an economical-angled design as opposed to sport angle ("g" in engine code- (2t-g, 18r-g, etc)
the 3s-ge is out of the SX st162s- the STs had a 3s-fe in them. its also out of the sw20 MR2s- the sleek ones not the boxy ones like joels.
correct me if im wrong
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Mon, 29 March 2004 11:53
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pretty spot on Ryley ..
you could call it the nosebleed ?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Tue, 30 March 2004 01:30
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so the st184s are RWD?
that celica with the lexus v8 in it, that was done at ivan clark's in wodonga, wasn't it? or at least something was done there...
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Tue, 30 March 2004 02:27
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st184's are front wheel drive ..
jamie did most of his own work on the 1uz ta22 , but he may have had work done on it there ..
its an awesome machine none the less
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Location:
Ballarat
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Tue, 30 March 2004 12:23
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i may as well have not have started this thread, the silly parrot doesnt want to sell me the shell
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Wed, 31 March 2004 02:37
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Ahh well mate - look for a Gt4 .. its the better dollars prospect anyway - and you should be able to get a reasonable one for around 10K ..
If you want me to keep my eye out for one i will
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Wed, 31 March 2004 03:28
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hahah
grants already got two celicas, i think he was just looking at this one coz its fucked, and been sitting in a yard for years- ie get it on the cheap
mind you i have no idea what he may do next
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Wed, 31 March 2004 05:00
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2 words.......... Ultimate Celica!!!
Ryley: its not a box....... its a wedge And for the top speed, i dunno im getting old, i still haven't clocked over 170 in her 
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1991 celica
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Wed, 31 March 2004 07:13
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can i say its wedgie?
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 1991 celica
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Wed, 31 March 2004 12:22
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i like giving chicks wedgies esp if they're wearing a g
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