| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
 help on quad throttle conversion
|
Sat, 17 August 2002 13:34
|
 |
hello, i'm planning to convert my current 4age 16v TVIS to quad throttle...any1 out there able to help? 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Sun, 18 August 2002 10:25
|
|
this would be about what you want :
http://jspec.homestead.com/20VALVETHROTTLEKIT.html
i had a look today an adaptor is very necessary - the ports nor the posts line up anywhere close on the 20v quad throttle bodies to the 16v head!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 06:32
|
|
That looks very groovy. 
Just one thing though... Am I right in reading that it costs US$1250 (or roughly $2,500 Australian) ???! You'd want a hell of a lot of HP increase to justify a cost like that!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 08:23
|
|
|
yes is a tad bit expensive.....sure tho something wouldn't be too hard to rig up..
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 08:42
|
|
|
1250usd bit pricey.. all the parts to do the conversion r obtainable in aust but i'm not sure bout the adapter...any1 out there done this b4?
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 10:09
|
|
|
WHY, WHY, WHY? You don't have to use the 4AGE 20V throttles.. a webber carb manifold for the 4AGE and Injection Perfection (or several others) throttle bodies all end up doing the same job and most are OZ made too!!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 11:04
|
|
hmmm. why, well :
1. price for 20v throttle bodies ~$400
2. custom make adaptor plate ~$200
bit of programming and some computer magic (unknown $ amount) - and away you go.
lets call it $1500?
however, on the other side of the weber carbied fence 
1. 2 x DCOE40 weber carbs ($1100 minus jets/setup for 4AGE)
2. 1 x redline inlet manifold ~$300
3. 1 x linkages (only guessing here ~$200)
4. dizzy mod to go backwards to rotor/hall effect ~$500
5. dyno time jetting and tuning (god knows)
so maybe $2500?
last time i checked injection perfection throttle bodies were about $1200 i think that was minus injection gear and fuel rail - has prolly changed.
don't get me wrong nothing wrong with weber carbs at all - they're a grouse carb and comparable to a good injection setup when tuned properly, but, they're VERY expensive to buy (all these prices are brand new BTW)
(i've been researching doing same for my TA22 Celica)
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 12:36
|
|
Did I say anything about webber carbs? I was refering to the manifold FOR a webber carb
| Quote: |
2. 1 x redline inlet manifold ~$300
|
Yeah about right, Injection perfection were about $1000, but there are cheaper versions on the market, this did incl fuel rail, which also accept the standard 4AGE injectors, so mark that off the list, or get them exchange of something bigger and/or cleaned for $100, thou, bigger injector wouldn't be necessary on a standard engine anyway. So far total = $1400, buying new! but scope the racing magazines ie Rallysport News, Autoaction, etc, this could drop a huge amount... in fact close to your Budget. Still, these are a heap cheaper than Jspec!! and with a larger choice in injector at a reasonable cost. The 20V use side feed injectors which cost heaps to clean or swap for larger ones, the aftermarket throttle bodies, one can use any injector you want, 12A rotors, Bosch... as long as they're end feed.
Then there's the ECU, Ever tried to get someone to remap a standard ECU for that or any quad setup? They'll tell you to too hard, go away, buy an after market setup, etc.... Be prepared for every excuse under the sun and if your lucky, $850 min., lot's of dyno time @$100-150/hr.... Good luck... Late Toyota Chips are embedded on the board, so they aren't a matter of swap one for a new one as is the case of other manufacturers. You could go a unichip or some other mod like that, but, I really don't like them and prefer the right equipment for the job...
| Quote: |
4. dizzy mod to go backwards to rotor/hall effect ~$500
|
What?? The model 4AGE he's asked about has this anyway. The only one that has the individual coil setups are the late model GZE's, even the 20V's don't have individual coils.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 12:59
|
|
All I will say is that make sure you account for the size of the fuel rail with the injectors in place:
don't want to have that manifold made to then bolt is all together: go to put in fuel rail and.... f^&k!!!!
Friends 20v, extractors, ind coils and trumpets made 170hp at flywheel. Considering you are already buying a computer, you don't need to budget that as extra cost and other bit's you would want to do to get the 16v making power. Food for thought (and 20v have a deeper note at full throttle IMO  )
Jaz
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 13:06
|
|
Jaz,
Very true, just go buy a 20V for $1200-1400! and bolt the whole lot in...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 15:57
|
|
Bill Sherwood did the 20v quad throttle mod to his 16v 4AGE. He may have info on his site. He says they work better low down that the standard manifold when you use big cams like he has. Because with the standard manifold and big cams, you get reversion or something, and upsets low end torque, maybe.
I am planing to go this route with my 2TG eventualy. I have a 2TGEU manifold, but I'm not sure I will use it. Solexs are used now (cheap) and its fun trying to tune them (realy,I have small sucess sometimes, good for learning). And I don't want turbo yet because I am building a hi-comp engine, and will eventualy use aftermarket quad-throttle EFI, and retain that carbie sound. And when I'm old, rich, with nothing else left to do, I will go turbo.
|
|
|
Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 16:04
|
|
As Johnny was trying to say, aftermarket throttles are the same stud pattern as sidedrafts, so just buy a sidedraft adapter manifold. I am lucky with the 2TG in this way, already have the manifold stock.
Bill Sherwood made his own adapter plate for the 20v throttles, and he has photos of the process.
Also, this forum is way better than the club4AG forums, or any other. Keep it up Aussies!
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 17:00
|
|
20v 4age is not what i want...16v with quad throttle is the real toy.. 
anyway..thanks alot guys!! i will post some pic when when conversion done!!  thanks again!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Mon, 19 August 2002 23:02
|
|
|
hmmm.....i did read that wrong....thks for the clarification johnny
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Tue, 20 August 2002 00:12
|
|
If anyone wanted some new throttle bodies chack out
http://www.speed-technology.com/efi_throttle.html
They make some really nice throttle bodies for a decent amount of money.
Cheers
Ben
AE86 Trueno 4AGE
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Wed, 21 August 2002 02:20
|
|
Hey Ben they've got some good stuff there.. prices not *too* bad, considering...
Does anyone know if the 20V throttle bodies bolt directly up to a weber intake manifold?
thnx
sam
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Wed, 21 August 2002 07:49
|
|
| Quote: |
Does anyone know if the 20V throttle bodies bolt directly up to a weber intake manifold?
|
No, but if you have 20V throttles, I'd be interested, I seem to be short a set and I really don't want to pull a perfectly good Blacktop apart for them either.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Wed, 21 August 2002 10:05
|
|
|
johnny i have a set from a silver top which are not looking like any use to me...
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Wed, 21 August 2002 10:10
|
|
|
interested in the TB too..
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Wed, 21 August 2002 20:24
|
|
Not much to add to what's been written above, just here to add a picture of my engine.
Runs very nicely indeed.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Wed, 21 August 2002 22:30
|
|
bill - interesting.......what injectors are u using (noticed the fuel rail there - not using the side feed 20v ones?)
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Thu, 22 August 2002 01:12
|
|
You've got an advantage with the 4AG, as the factory injectors mount into the head, not the manifold.
You can literally cut down some old sidedrafts, fit them to a manifold, attach some trumpets add an aftermarket computer and your ready to go.
I did it with some old 40mm solex's a couple of years ago and the sound was just awesome..
I've got some pics on this page:
http://www.geocities.com/benwilsonau/
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Thu, 22 August 2002 11:14
|
|
Sure I'm, where you at? and how much? I Currently have an engine in pieces, a 20V head, and no throttles  I just want to put it together.... Give me an email on johnek@ozemail.com.au
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Thu, 22 August 2002 11:58
|
|
|
you've both got mail...
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Thu, 22 August 2002 12:27
|
|
can i just weld the 20v TB on 16v engine? 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Thu, 22 August 2002 21:21
|
|
um, you could, but would defeat the purpose really of being able to seperate the head from the inlet manifold - ie: if you killed the head, you'd be throwing the whole lot away.
best would be to make up an adaptor plate, that bolts to the 4AGE 16v head, and then in turn bolts to the 20v quad throttle bodies.
if you ask bill nicely enough he may even share some of his ideas?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: help on quad throttle conversion
|
Thu, 22 August 2002 21:56
|
|
Not a lot to add, but there's two ways to go to add 20v TB's to a 16v.
One way is to make up a manifold that the TB's themselves bolt to, and that's not hugely hard to do but takes a lot of time fiddling around with getting everything just right. (The linkages between the TB's are pretty fiddly)
The other way is to make a thin-ish adaptor that goes between the 20v inlet manifold and the 16v head. I reckon this would be a bad idea as the different in size & shape of the two ports would be hard to blend over a short distance.
Either way isn't easy, but the first way is probably the best.
My one is a bit of a bodgy version of the first, as I was going to add some dead Webers to the head and so made up a Weber style manifold to suit. But then the 20v TB's came along and I decided to go with those instead. The easiest way out of making the TB's fit was to make another adaptor that went between the TB's and the Weber style manifold to make them fit each other.
A bit fiddly, but it works okay.
|
|
|
