| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Sun, 04 April 2004 23:49
|
 |
hi guys,
thought you might be interested in this comparo i did on the weekend between these different setups
the 4agte runs a 4agze motor, s14 t28, microtech mt8, 7mgte injectors, vr4 FMIC, 15psi
the gze runs a 175mm nevo pulley, big FMIC, microtech LTX8,
the 20v is a stock motor, microtech LTX8, restrictive exhuast,
Dale
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 00:54
|
|
|
do you possibly have the torque curves to go with those?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 01:05
|
|
|
ill do a sheet with the toruge curves tomorrow for you
|
|
|
Location:
EPPING SYDNEY
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 01:37
|
|
|
what size is the 7mgte injectors?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 01:45
|
|
440cc,
when new clutch is in more boost will go in there
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 02:15
|
|
|
Nice comparison!
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 06:47
|
|
|
i recon the 20v holds up alright considering its a n/a
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 06:54
|
|
|
its also rwd so has more drivetrain loss
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 22:59
|
|
here is the torque of the 3 motors,
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 05 April 2004 23:05
|
|
Nice graphs.
I'll take the one with the supercharger thanks.
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 06 April 2004 03:38
|
|
ditto!
mmmm, torque!
I would be very interested in seeing a more accurate comparison of the 20V - ie, in the same car as the others, and possibly showing a stock 20V compared with a microteched 20V.
Otherwise, tops work Dale. Into the FAQ of twincam.org this goes.
Oh, and do you have a 16V curve to compare with the GZE and GTE?
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 06 April 2004 03:49
|
|
i havent tuned any FWD 20V'S so i cant do a comparasion with that  i havent done any FWD 16v's either only RWD, i havent had a stock ecu 20v on there either there has been a stock 16v FWD corolla on there tho, 95% of the toyotas that have been on the dyno are either ones from the twincam.org dyno days or ones im tuning the ecu on.
i will do a sheet tonight with the gze, gte, 20v and 16v all on the one sheet for you with both torque and HP, all the motors are fitted with microtechs and tuned by me so they will all be pretty consistant, the losses between FWD and RWD will not be worth worrying about as there wont be a huge difference in them.
ill get some more up tomorrow
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 06 April 2004 11:47
|
|
I'm sorry to tell everyone but the Sprinter with the 20V is dead!!
But alas its powerplant lives on and has grown a Turbo, and been placed in an AE71 sedan, 2.5 inch exhaust, 6psi boost, 10.5:1 compression, if it doesn't last, hello GZE bottom end.
cheers
The Dayo
P.S Cheers to Dale who tuned my 20V, as it has the most power i've heard of coming from a near stock 20V in a sprinter.
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 06 April 2004 14:57
|
|
dale... if you can i would like to see the stock 16V FWD graph on there (im sure you have a 100kW AE92 graph after the recent dyno day).
It just for my own curiosity, and to put into the info base im gathering.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 06 April 2004 22:37
|
|
i dont know if there has been a stock 100kw FWD on there, ill have to do a search of who was there and stuff,
here is a stock 86kw 4age RWD, 2.5" exhaust, Microtech LT8
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 06:43
|
|
Is it just me or is this dyno recording a little High on the NA motors ???
Just looking at the past Dyno days, 78.2 for a stock 4AG and 92 for a stock 20V even with a microtech??
Could be just me.
Ben
AE86 Trueno 4AGE
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 13:08
|
|
| 10sec_rx7 wrote on Wed, 07 April 2004 08:37 |
i dont know if there has been a stock 100kw FWD on there
|
I'm happy to supply the use of mine if you want. 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 13:22
|
|
|
Sounds about right. 20V blacktop in a KE25 pulled 87 rwkW.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 22:11
|
|
Ben,
the dyno is accurate, its around 6 months old with all the correct calabrations done, it reads identical to dyno dynamics own dynos.
Lucid,
if you want to give it a run let me know.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 23:13
|
|
I would agree that this dyno seems to be reading higher than the one on toymods dyno day.
My 86kw RWD sprinter with microtech pulled 62kw and that was one of the highest 4age's....
But thats not the point here, dyno's are never really acurate to each other, its the fact that we can compare against each different motor on the same dyno here.
Thanx heaps Dale...
now you just need to put a 1g-gte on there to compare hehe
have a graph with all the toyota motors that we use, would be great
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 23:25
|
|
as far as im aware premier is a shootout workshop and there fore there dyno could read anything as it probably hasnt been calabrated for the shootout mode,
all shootout workshops are listed on www.dyno.com.au
Ribbo,
you should be getting more than that, i have done a few 86kw rwd motors and all have made around the 78kw mark,
can you show me your maps??
we have had a few dyno days but none of these types of cars show up
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Wed, 07 April 2004 23:48
|
|
Ahh ok, i see now, ill have to bring my car to one of your Dyno days or just get a reading one day, im only around the corner on Carrington at castle Hill, so im nice and close.
here is my reading from Stewart Wilkins a couple of weeks ago.
Ben
AE86 Trueno 4AGE.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 00:04
|
|
yeh bring it down and we will do a power run on it, ill be there tomorrow morning at about 9 do some tuning if your not busy pop down and say hello.
Dale
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 03:09
|
|
nice AFR there Ribbo 
Cya, Stewart
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 03:42
|
|
is that digi 1 fuel and ign or just fuel only?? some were both and some were only fuel,
this is how i aim to get most of my AFR
this is a GZE
and my misses na starlet with a turbo on it.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 05:54
|
|
both ign and fuel
was tuned by Hitman but only on the road not dyno, for a digi1 I thought that was a pretty good a/f considering it was done for about half an hour driving around.
But as you can see I think the premier dyno is reading a fair bit less than yours
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 06:05
|
|
its hard to say yours made 63kw there abouts which is probably about right, the 16v making 78 has a great exhuast, latest Microtech etc, NA cars rely on a few things to make power, you need a good exhuast, good tune and the right ign timing, i can change the timing on a 20v and it will make 6hp more, then another change then another 6hp, dont get me started on road tunes, too dangerious and you will never get them as good for max power as you will on a dyno, cruse you will get slightly better on the road but not a great deal.
next time we have a dyno day you guys will have to bring your cars down to try them out on our dyno.
we will be having another day in a few months when the dyno room is finished.
Dale
|
|
|
Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 09:22
|
|
I think the difference might be mostly to do with the Toymods Dyno not using Shootout mode, whereas the graphs above are.
This would account for such a variation.
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Thu, 08 April 2004 18:06
|
|
I am running a GZE with Nevo 175mm, HKS 2 1/4 exhaust system, APEXi Filter. Traffic light warrior. I wish I had Microtech.
I havent had it dynoed, but seeing the graph brings a smile to my face.
BTW its in an AW11
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Fri, 09 April 2004 00:59
|
|
|
Hey old_mr2, on our dyno day a guy running a similar setup to you pulled 132.7rwhp, check it out at mr2sa.com.au
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Fri, 09 April 2004 11:38
|
|
|
you really can't compare readings form different dyno's, each operater can and do like to have different settings ie load factors. what needs to be taken into account is the difference between each motor ie GZE made 15 hp more than a 20V etc.
|
|
|
Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 12 April 2004 22:12
|
|
in shootout mode the loads etc are all locked,
all these sheets can be compared easily as they were on out dyno in shootout mode, so its a good way to compare if your planning future mods.
Dale
|
|
|
Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Mon, 12 April 2004 23:33
|
|
| BigWorm wrote on Thu, 08 April 2004 19:22 |
I think the difference might be mostly to do with the Toymods Dyno not using Shootout mode, whereas the graphs above are.
This would account for such a variation.
|
Why would different modes show different power.
Im a very newbie when it comes to understanding dyno's, but mine was dyno'ed in july last year with 52rwkw, 177nm with 13.29afr, although im not too sure about the quality of the dyno.
|
|
|
Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 13 April 2004 00:55
|
|
Because shootout mode corrects for things like temp, barometric pressure, humidity etc, which is supposed to standardise all dyno runs performed in this mode on different dynos.
You should be able to compare results from different dynos when they're done in shootout mode, however we'll stick with our dyno days, where every car is run on the same dyno under similar conditions.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: comparo between 4agte, 4agze, 20v
|
Tue, 13 April 2004 01:37
|
|
as well as the correction factors the loading rate, or how fast the car can accelerate the dyno, will affect the reading...
i can't remember if a slower ramp rate gives higher results or vice versa, but the difference is a lot bigger than most mods you could to 
Cya, Stewart
|
|
|
