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Registered:
July 2002
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Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Sat, 24 August 2002 15:56
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Hi guys, I've read on the net how they recommend the surge tank to be located inside the engine compartment, what about the fuel pump? Can the pre-pump and the high pressure pump reside in the engine compartment as well? Being in the boot is too noisy, and the petrol doesn't smell very nice too.. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Sat, 24 August 2002 16:37
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Hey ... I'm also interested to hear from anyone who's upgraded their fuel system. My AE86 undergoes her 4AGE transformation soon but I still haven't decided whether to go with just a fuel pump upgrade or spend more for a full fuel system (ie. surge tank etc).
Having spoken to Robin Berardo from Perfourmance Motorsports here in Qld, I know that he prefers to mount pumps & lines etc outside & under the car if possible. He's told me from past experience that even mounting the pumps in a car in the boot compartment still doesn't get rid 100% of petrol / oil fumes. Anyone confirm this?
I also noticed that Bill Sherwood's AE86 has its pump mounted sideways under the car just ahead of the rear diff.
Just my 2 cents worth & sorry for taking up this post thread ... 
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Sun, 25 August 2002 04:18
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Hi Dodgy_Haro, I think you'll need a surge tank for sure if you're running EFI, you don't want your engine misfiring under full loading at high revs around corners etc.
the fumes are fairly bad, I know coz I have the system mounted in the boot, that's why I'm looking to have everything moved to the external of the car as I don't want to come back one day watching the car blow up with the petrol inside the car.. 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Sun, 25 August 2002 08:44
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I had the same problem with my TE72, not wanting to mount any fuel components in the hatch.
I have the pre pump in front of the tank under the car, and the surge tank & main EFI pump in the engine bay, in the drivers side front corner down low.
in theory, some people say that this heats up the fuel significantly, but i havnt had any real life problems with the setup.
Phil
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Sun, 25 August 2002 09:41
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I have a surge tank, lift pump, HP pump and all lines e.c.t in the hatch of my RA28 and I never smell any fuel. If it's all airtight then you shouldn't be able to smell it should you?? It's just hella noisy, I just need to find some sound-proofing!
Tim.
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Location:
Maroubra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 01:06
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Couldn't you just put the pump in the boot and encase it in a sound-proof material. That's what i'm looking at doing... in my ae71 i have the pump in the boot... it makes a bit of noise but i can't really hear it when i'm flying past all those celicas!!!
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 01:17
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yeah, I already built a box/cover with 18mm chipboard, and was planning on spraying the internals with body deadener, and was going to place a pipe/hose near the top of the cover with a fan running on the other end to extract the fumes, but still it would be much safer being outside the car, as you don't want anything to blow up if you get badly rear ended by some idiot!  also will get a bigger boot to place all the shoppings, after all it's still a shopping trolley.. 
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 01:23
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Why do u need the surge tank? I thought u only needed them if you are running huge hp engines. My mechanic (who is doing my engine conversion at the moment) says that i don't need the surge tank. He is just installing a submersible electronic pump with an extra large pickup inside the tank.
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Location:
Maroubra
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 01:30
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Well...
a surge tank makes sure that there is always fuel going to the engine. In a normal fuel tank, if you are running a bit low and go around a corner at high g's or blasting up a hill, physics say that the fuel wont be up the front of the tank. Hence no fuel going to the engine because it's just not there to be sucked up. A surge tank runs off the fuel tank and has only a small capacity but due to the nature of its setup the fuel hose sucks directly from the bottom always getting fuel. In an EFI car you dont want to run out of fuel... not good
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Location:
Ipswich
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 01:45
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I have never had a problem in an efi car with low fuel. That's why i thought surge tanks were just for high hp engines. So, if i keep my fuel level above say 1/4 i probably wouldn't have any probs??? Am also getting my mechanic to put the fuel pickup in the centre of the tank now. Just in case!
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 07:17
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Hi Helmann, the reason why you don't have problems with your EFI cars is most likely you have an "EFI tank", this tank has a baffle (lower point compared to the rest of the tank) and that's where the pick-up is located, therefore the fuel stays around the pick-up even when you go around corners, but if you have a carby converted EFI, then you won't have such a tank..
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 22:04
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Easiest upgrade for AE86 = 7MGTE internal pump replacement.
For my KE35 with 2TGEU. I have a LP external pump in engine bay pumping into surge tank, getting drained by some early Soarer external HP pump which feeds my injector rail. No return. Std lines. This setup known to support 300hp 3SGTE in KE20.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Mon, 26 August 2002 23:24
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karl,
you say 7mgte pump for an ae86. is this into an already efi tank? what about if you dont have a efi tank?
thanks
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Tue, 27 August 2002 02:42
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karl:
do you mean to say that you have NO return line from your rail?
how much fuel pressure does this create? how long does your efi pump last at this pressure?
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Tue, 27 August 2002 03:14
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My rail returns to surge, but i don't ahve a return from surge to tank.
Yes, 7MGTE is an intank pump that fits AE86.
You should be able to find an AE86 pump to swap in.
Else do a setup exactly like mine.
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Location:
Forrestfield, WA
Registered:
August 2002
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 Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Fri, 30 August 2002 00:08
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My car has a surge tank (factory) under the bonnet as do most EFI cars i believe. The pump however is located inside the tank. I replaced it with a Bosch 975 (HUGE) where the existing one is and mounted it back inside the tank. EFI pumps crank hard and i believe they are designed to go inside the tank for cooling (though alot of the drag cars you see have them mounted outside).
They sit in the tank in a centre box that is about half the height of the tank and has a tiny exit/entry hole in it, basically think of it like an icecream container full of fuel, this keeps the pumps arse end submerged in fuel for the duration of the tank of fuel. Ive always as a general rule not got below 10 litres of fuel.
Apart from the occasional whine and hiss you cant really hear the pump in mine from inside... outside however yeah, sounds like a servo motor going nuts at the back of the car... i like it
Theres photos here of the pump swap :
http://www.supratt.tk/pump24082002.html
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Location:
Auckland, New Zealand
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Fri, 30 August 2002 02:12
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Karl forgot to mention that when he says AE86, he is talking about a JDM AE86 Fuel Tank (4A-GE, EFI, Intank-pump).
The OZ Spec AE86, has the same fuel tank as an JDM AE85 (3A-U) which has an external pump.
The difference between the tanks are the internals, the JDM AE86 has an EFI baffle setup where as the OZ AE86/JDM AE85 does not.
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Fri, 30 August 2002 12:16
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Good point John.
I forgot that Aus gets different models.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Location of Fuel Pump & Surge Tanks..
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Fri, 30 August 2002 16:15
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If I had surge tank, it'd go under the car. I don't like fuel being in the cabin with me (in AE86. Sedan's are different).
For the AE86 upgrade, I hear you can use and AE82 EFI bracket. You need to extend it down 30-40mm or something.
I am using a AW11 MR2 braket. It sits the pump and filter(pump from 22RE Corona - same as supra), sit's pump in the lower rectangle depression in AE86 tank. It needs no height modification. A custom rubber seal and new holes drilled in th MR2 bracket to bolt on but I'm pretty happy for $0 cost.
Only problem: finding a AW11 MR2 bracket.
Jaz
Don't forget for high HP upgrade's, the 4AC fuel lines won't cut the grade for flow. Yes the high pressure helps, but flow is flow. For anything over 86Kw, look at upgraded fuel lines.
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