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Location:
Behind you
Registered:
May 2003
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Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Fri, 30 April 2004 14:40
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Ive done a search on spacers and found they're illegal, but i have a few qustions on them and if anyone could answer them it would be great.
First off, they're illegal, but is that only if they arent engineered? or cant they be made legal?
Second, there were a few references to "hub centric spacers" and these being made legal (if i understood correctly), now i dont exactly understand what a "hub centric spacer" is, anyone got a web page that could explain them?
Third, there was also a few post on the fact that spacers influence the "track" of the car, and usually in a less than preffered way, is there anyway to make this not happen, in bad way.
So what im trying to find out is if there is anyway i can fit spacers (wheel, hub centric, whatever) legally to my car, i need them for the front wheels (25mm).
And i dont mind if they need to be engineered to be made legal.
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Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Fri, 30 April 2004 15:06
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25mm spacers?
get some bolt on blocks which bolt onto your hubs then the wheel bolts onto another set of studs fixed into the spacer block simple.
they usually cost around $70-100 each just go to your local performance or hotrod shop they should be able to source some
and yes they can be engineered as long as the rim is legal on your car since technically its part of the rim not the hub.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 04:32
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The thing that bothers engineers about some spacer's, is that they are not held captive.. The 25mm adapter bolts up to the hub, and then the wheel bolts to the adapter. Enginers have no problem giving these the all clear!
The 5mm and 9mm spacers commonly available from Tyre shops/ Wheel shops, are also easily approved IF these are made a fixed component of either the hub or the wheel. Generally you would attach these to your wheels or hubs by drilling and tapping holes into the wheel/hub ,and then drilling the spacers with a countersink. Then you attach by using countersunk head machine screws secured with some thread locker fluid. You must ensure that the head of the machine screw is level or lower that the spacer. You need full 360 Deg contact between hub and spacer and spacer and wheel. Once the spacer is attached to either the hub or wheel then the engineers will have grounds for complaint!
Concentric spacers refers to the adapter rings fitted to the centre of wheels, so that the weight of the wheel bears on the hub. This is important, as the wheel studs are not supporting the wheel, only preventing it from moving off the centre support.
Engineers will generally allow up to 25mm increse in track. Beyond that the moment arm becomes too long and could result in bent/ fractured stub axles.
regards Chuck.
[Updated on: Sat, 01 May 2004 04:38]
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 06:50
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the main reason slide on spacers are illegal is due to the loss of thread on the studs
i got some proper 25mm spacers from japan
dirt cheap if u know someone there heheh
the ones i got are for toyota hilux/nissan stud pattern
but u can get ones that go from one stud pattern to another eg different pitch diameter or whatter they call it
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 07:29
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so why don't you get rims with the correct offset?
might even end up cheaper to buy new rims than to get spacers made up and engineered!!!
1" is a fair whack of a spacer.. you'd want to be sure that the studs and bolts are going to survive....
rim position influences track...
are you trying to put FWD rims on a RWD? or just move the rims further outward for the full sik look  (ie the RWD rim on FWD Honduh look )
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Behind you
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 09:39
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| oldcorollas wrote on Sat, 01 May 2004 17:29 |
so why don't you get rims with the correct offset?
might even end up cheaper to buy new rims than to get spacers made up and engineered!!!
1" is a fair whack of a spacer.. you'd want to be sure that the studs and bolts are going to survive....
rim position influences track...
are you trying to put FWD rims on a RWD? or just move the rims further outward for the full sik look (ie the RWD rim on FWD Honduh look )
Cya, Stewart
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I was waiting for someone to bring this up.
Buy new rims, No. Im not going to go into the reasons.
And no, rwd rims on a rwd car, no full sik.
The thing im most worried about is the weight of the car on the studs, and from what ive gathered here, hub centric spacers solve this problem (i hope this is correct, otherwise ive misunderstood everything)
And the effect that it will ahve on the track, which im still trying to gather info on.
[Updated on: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:40]
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 10:24
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| Quote: |
I was waiting for someone to bring this up.
Buy new rims, No. Im not going to go into the reasons.
And no, rwd rims on a rwd car, no full sik.
The thing im most worried about is the weight of the car on the studs, and from what ive gathered here, hub centric spacers solve this problem (i hope this is correct, otherwise ive misunderstood everything)
And the effect that it will ahve on the track, which im still trying to gather info on.
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well someone had to say it
so you are not respacing bad rims to clear the strut tube?
you want to space the rim 25mm further out from where it originally sat, ie increase track by 50mm total?
well, it will change scrub radius.
it will affect massively the bending moment on the axle which is bad.
it will massively load the studs, since there is now a much bigger bending moment, and it is a cyclic load which is even worse...
the hubcentric thing is so that you are not using the wheelstuds to take the load..
for MOST cars, it is the protruding ledge on the hub and the coresponding rim hole, that takes the actual weight of the car. the studs just hold the wheel on.
if you take this away, and the wheelstuds are actually taking the weight, you are asking to die
imHo, you would be better off either a), new rims with correct offset (although if you are spacing them out, you still have excessive loading on the stub axles and bearings)
b) get a new hub made up. this will not stop the problem of excessive bearign and stub axle loading.
the problem is that if the original moment arm was sayyy... 50mm, and you stick an extra 25mm on, you ar enow loading the stub axle 50% more... which is a bad thing (tm)
combined with the scrub radius alteration, if it is extra track you are after, to lengthen lower arms, and move strut tops out 25mm each..... and also lengthen the steering tie rods.
what exactly is it you are trying to achieve?
why the mystery
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 10:31
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oh and for the bearing thing..
remember when the WRX GTP cars were first fanging around philip island (and still)??
the bearings ended up collapsing... due to poor design (ie width between bearings not large enough) putting large forces on the bearings...
this causes the bearings to collapse.
this is exactly what happens when you move the centrline of tyre contact away from the strut.
please consider 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Behind you
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 13:41
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| oldcorollas wrote on Sat, 01 May 2004 20:24 |
so you are not respacing bad rims to clear the strut tube?
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Actually thats exactly what i want to do. Does this somehow makes things simpler/easier?
Im really out of my depth here, seems ive dug myself a massive grave surround by hubs and shocks and other crap. 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 14:07
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in a way it makes it easier..
since you are effectively changing the offset of the rim itself, the bearings and stub axle will not be loaded badly..
what you DON'T want is really long wheel studs that bend and flex as they pass thru a 25mm spacer..
what you basically want to do is to have the spacer bolted securely to the hub. so much so that it is then considered part of the hub. and then from the hub to the rim are normal length wheel studs, which will not be overloaded. the spacer should also have the same shoulder as the original hub, so it transfers the weight of the car to the rim properly.
to get this engineered costs... $440? (STD eng cert??) and to get the spacers made up... dunno, depends if you know someone who can machine stuff... ask the engineer what materials to make it from...
can you sell the rims and buy ones with the proper offset?
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sat, 01 May 2004 15:11
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FYI
Hub-centric and Lug-centric are described on the page below..
http://www.yokohamatire.com/utwheels.asp
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Behind you
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Sun, 02 May 2004 13:14
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Thanks for that site.
With that last explanation it seems that it will work out,hopefully :fingerscrossed:.
Thanks for the help.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Incorrect offset, spacers, hub spacers, engineering.. HELP
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Mon, 03 May 2004 02:35
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your crazy if your fitting 25mm spacers
nuts
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