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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Sun, 09 May 2004 04:20
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just wondering what is the same and what is ddifferent between 21 and 22r engines. also is there a mid sump for the 22r engine and whats it in
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Sun, 09 May 2004 06:54
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this is real basics that you prolly are aware of, but ill say anyway..
21r is 2.0 litre SOHC carbie, about 67kw
22r is 2.4 litre SOHC carbie and/or EFi, about 87 kw
apparantly the 22r has lots of low down torque and aint really that good...
the 21r was a nice economical engine that propelled my celica to 100km/h in about 14 seconds 
sorry but thats about all i know 
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Sun, 09 May 2004 09:55
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Im wondering what is the same in the way of pistons crank block head cams etc etc....also which would be better to turbo 22re or 21rc or maybe efi the 21rc and then turbo.
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Sun, 09 May 2004 11:46
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The blocks are different hight not sure about other bits ,
The 22RTE is the go in the USA .
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Sun, 09 May 2004 13:58
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the 22r-te was stock in a hilux apparantly, so if you wanted to turbo one of them, theres a good starting point
as far as i know they only made a meager 135hp, so they're pretty crappy, but hey, they might be perfect for your application
hope some of this helps
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Sun, 09 May 2004 14:01
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best bet is to start off with efi, and the 22r-e. As has been stated, htis is a pretty popular conversion in the states (where crappy laws prevent them doing real engine conversions). You have to ask yourself what sort of gains you're after, and how much you're looking to spend. the turbo option will offer you a modest gain in power, but if you're looking at building a real powerhouse the simple answer is to start looking at engine conversions 
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Tue, 11 May 2004 04:39
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this is a long way off my original question now. I have a 22re and a 21rc and i wanna start buy making a good engine out of the 2. Ive been told heads are the same and blocks are different...Would i be better of building a 22re, 22rc or the 21rc. We would like to stay carby for now if possibly to save wiring up a computer. this is going in a sa63
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Tue, 11 May 2004 08:41
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Ahh, my kinda question
Okay, there is a few things i better clear up. There is an early and a late version of both. The early 21/22R head doesnt have the bolt holes for the EFI manifold. So beware Also the early head has open combustion chambers and round exhaust ports.
In Australia, we got the early 21R-C and the late 22R-E. The late 22RE head is much different. The main differnce is the closed combustion chamber. So unless you want to drop your CR something seriously low, I dont recommend swapping heads. The height of the block on the late model I believe is shorter. The majority of items that bolt onto the front will not swap between early/late. Also in Australia, the 22R-E got the analog EFI setup with the late style head/block. So changing to a proper EFI setup can be a bastard with all the vacuum hoses/emissions gear + the vacuum/centrifugal advance dizzy.
For a turbo motor, I recommend using the 22R-E. It has a lot of aftermarket support in the US. Primarily www.lcengineering.com
If you want more pics on 22R turbo stuff, I have millions. Done shitloads of research. In the end, found out that 4 valves are better than two and two cams are better than one. Hence the 3S-GTE SA63.
Cheers,
James Nicol
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Tue, 11 May 2004 09:33
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the 21r is pretty much the same as a 20r but not as much cc's am i right?
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Tue, 11 May 2004 12:48
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the 21r is pretty much the same as a 20r but not as much cc's am i right?
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Not exactly. The 20R is the 2.2L variant, brought out before the 21R/22R. The head design is rather different. Circular intake ports, the airflow for the intake is differnt. The 21R/22R has a swirl flow pattern.
In the US, the 20R head on the 22R is a popular swap for increased compression ratio, and no swirl intake ports. But at the compromise of smaller valves.
The camshafts are interchangable too. But im unsure of rods/crank. the 20R/21R/22R share the same stroke, just change in bore.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Tue, 11 May 2004 22:48
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| ViPeR_NiPPleX wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 18:48 |
Also in Australia, the SA63/RA65 got the W55 g/box, but the RA60 got the W58 which has imho better gears (taller).
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I've bought a transmission from an RA60 and a transmission from an RA65, and both were W57's. In fact every RA6x I've seen at the wreckers had a W57, and I'm looking for this sort of thing all the time. Can't recall what SA63's usually come with though.
| ViPeR_NiPPleX wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 18:48 |
All share the same diff ratio (T312?).
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From what I've seen the RA60 and SA63 have a 3.9:1 ratio while the RA65 has a 3.5:1 F-series diff.
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Wed, 12 May 2004 10:03
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its a complete sa63 but we are just looking at a better engine than the 2s-c
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Wed, 12 May 2004 11:14
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Every RA60 I've seen had a W57, I can't comment on the SA63, but I DO know that the RA65 came with both a W55 and W58. If Norbie has seen W57's in an RA65, then it means Toyota couldn't make up their minds
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Thu, 13 May 2004 02:28
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Every RA60 I've seen had a W57, I can't comment on the SA63, but I DO know that the RA65 came with both a W55 and W58. If Norbie has seen W57's in an RA65, then it means Toyota couldn't make up their minds
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Interesting. I wonder why toyota would switch between W55 an W58 in the RA65?
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its a complete sa63 but we are just looking at a better engine than the 2s-c
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Well if your not too far away, i am more than happy to help you out swapping in a 22re. PM me regarding the engine mounts/bellhousing. I am very interested in getting these parts for my 3s-gte swap.
Cheers,
James
EDIT: okay, QLD isnt close by  But I can show you pics, give wiring diagrams, etc. Whatever I can do to help.
[Updated on: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:30]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 21r and 22r simialities and differnces
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Thu, 13 May 2004 04:01
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I don't know, but Toyota also changed the diff ratio in both the RA65's with W55 and W58. Maybe they just had some left over.
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