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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 12:31
 
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bump, anyone.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 12:50
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TA23,
Mate I don't know who is Tuning your car for $250 but that is VERY cheap. I asume they are doing it on a Dyno and have some idea about what they are doing ??
Going rates for Dyno time are around $110/hour. I cannot see anyone going right thru your cars mapping in just 2 hours, Also given the program will be being changed to Map sensored the ENTIRE mapping will need to be redone. Not to mention ensureing it is all connected properly and is actually safe to Dyno. (Any decent workshop will pre-dyno your car prior to it seeing the rollers.)
Sounds like you either have a real bargain or are perhaps getting some suspect quality tuning.
Running a turbo car out of tune is a pretty bad idea. The 3TGTE is not very forgiving so unless your looking for an excuse to rebuild it I would at least make sure it is running at a safe level. Keep in mind if its running to rich it will not only foul the plugs but if its overfuelling to heavily it will thin your oil with the excess fuel that runs down the bores.
And don't think its its rich it won't ping, to much timing is to much timing regardless of how much fuel its getting.
Hope that helps.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Tue, 11 May 2004 10:46
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| thetoyman75 wrote on Mon, 10 May 2004 22:50 |
TA23,
Mate I don't know who is Tuning your car for $250 but that is VERY cheap. I asume they are doing it on a Dyno and have some idea about what they are doing ??
Going rates for Dyno time are around $110/hour. I cannot see anyone going right thru your cars mapping in just 2 hours, Also given the program will be being changed to Map sensored the ENTIRE mapping will need to be redone. Not to mention ensureing it is all connected properly and is actually safe to Dyno. (Any decent workshop will pre-dyno your car prior to it seeing the rollers.)
Sounds like you either have a real bargain or are perhaps getting some suspect quality tuning.
Running a turbo car out of tune is a pretty bad idea. The 3TGTE is not very forgiving so unless your looking for an excuse to rebuild it I would at least make sure it is running at a safe level. Keep in mind if its running to rich it will not only foul the plugs but if its overfuelling to heavily it will thin your oil with the excess fuel that runs down the bores.
And don't think its its rich it won't ping, to much timing is to much timing regardless of how much fuel its getting.
Hope that helps.
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I am getting a fair bit of work done there at a later date, he said something about mapping every second cluster (forget the words he used) so it will not be a perfect tune, but enough to get it running MAP sensor and running a hell of a lot better than it is, it will be done on a dyno and a before and after readout will be given to me.
Would my oil always being black explain that it is over fueling, even after an oil change my oil still seems to be fairly black?
If this is converted to MAP sensor do you think I will use alot less fuel and gain some power?
Thanks for your help.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Tue, 11 May 2004 10:48
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| thetoyman75 wrote on Mon, 10 May 2004 22:50 |
And don't think its its rich it won't ping, to much timing is to much timing regardless of how much fuel its getting.
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How can i tell directly if my car is pinging?
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Wed, 12 May 2004 14:11
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Damn, thought a few more guys on here knew more about tuning and stuff, anyway if anyone does know, let me know.
Thanks
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Wed, 12 May 2004 14:54
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TA23,
Your oil being black doesn't suggest running rich, it being thin and smelling like petrol would indicate that. Also if your oil level rises on the dipstick between changes.
Being black just means your engine could benefit from a good clean on the inside. Turbocharged cars are bloody hard on the oil and carbon deposits in the oil are just something that comes with it. They are detergent oils and cleaning oils around if you want to give it a good flush
This may sound harsh but your car is in tune or out of tune. Half a tune sounds like a half baked idea to me.
As for running a Map sensor over the AFM. No you won't make more power or use less fuel ! Your car may well make more power and use less fuel when he is finished but that will be because it is tuned better not because it is map sensored.
The advantage of a MAP based tune is that it will basically self calibrate to changes in your intake. It measures Manifold pressure so if you change intercoolers, get a boost leek, or improve your pipework the MAP sensor will adjust your tune to suit. It also means you can run a BOV that vents to atmosphere without upsetting the AFR.
If its pinging and you can here it... Its bad ! Kinda sounds like tiny hammers in your engine.... beating the crap out of your pistons ! Ask KECOOP about it LOL 
Hope that helps,
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Wed, 12 May 2004 15:10
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thanks mate, you are a great help, may hold off on the tune then, wait till I get this other stuff done at the same time.
Could there be any other reason why I am using so much fuel then?
thanks.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Wed, 12 May 2004 15:47
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running a turbo car on TPS only is a time bomb...
basically, the ECU doesn't know how much boost there is, it only knows throttle position....
chances are it was tuned stupidly rich, so that it doesn't blow up in your face.
there is only one tune for a car..
a good tune
this will be rich for power, and maybe a little lean for cruise...
this whole idea about having dual fuel maps for economy and power is daft.
with a "good tune" you will use the right amount of fuel for power, and the right amount of fuel for cruising..
if you use more fuel, it's tuned badly and is too rich. if you use less fuel, it is running too lean and could die a horrible death
anyhoo, running on MAP will hopefully result in your motor lasting longer.... even NA cars do not like alpha-N only.. it is usually used for motors with large cams where they will not be driven gently... ie race cars, where most time is spent WOT...
even then, TPS for low speed and MAP for higher rpm is often better..
just a few thoughts..
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Thu, 13 May 2004 01:10
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thanks mate, will keep what you have said in mind, now I dont know whether to get this tune done or not 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Thu, 13 May 2004 07:05
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I have a haltech f7 MAP in my 18rgeu got it tuned and it ran an awful lot better.
The haltech has two modes one with 16 bars and one with 32 bars so he might be talking about tuning it in the 16 bar mode.
I do recommend the tune, you probably wouldn't regret it afterwards.
I also got mine done here in adelaide for 170 bucks.
which seems about the going rate here (possibly slightly cheap).
Maybe you could go for a road trip to offset the cost of the tune.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Thu, 13 May 2004 13:43
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Did you get a before and after hp readout? if so was there much diff?
Thanks a lot for your help on the topic, appreciate it, may get the tune done, just for the sake of making my car run a little better.
Thats what the guy said here, he wont tune up every map, but match every second map so it takes a little less time and makes the car run better until I get it re tuned after some mods in about 6 months.
thetoyman75 - what are your opinions of getting every second MAP done, couldnt think of what the tuning guy when I mentioned it in my previous posts, in your eyes would this be worth the money?
Thanks.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Fri, 14 May 2004 08:14
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i don't understand why it would take more than 2 hours.
with a haltech the guy that worked on mine (he used to tune v8 supercars so i am inclined to believe he knows what he is doing, but i won't plug the business cos i believe the other guy that works with him is a bit of a money hungry so and so) did it with the full 32 bar mode in about an hour and a half max.
i have since thrown the readout away but before, the curve was erratic and peaked at an impressive 55KW i believe it was from memory. i was also chewing through the fuel (took about 5 bucks just to get it there which was no more than 15 to 20 k's away, free flowing traffic).
after tune it was much more responsive, had a much better curve and peaked at about 68KW.
so i assume to a turboed engine it would probably help a bit more.
With a haltech, i don't know if you have played with yours but you can adjust one torque curve for a particular rev range, copy all those settings from that rev rang and then apply it to all the other rev ranges, then it is jus a matter of fine tuning it for each rev range. The only thing that would be different on yours would be the turbo. so at a particular rev range when the turbo kicks in, the fuel would have to be increased substantially...maybe that is why it will take longer than what i would have expected
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Fri, 14 May 2004 15:36
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Sounds good, I may get it done then.
Mine is running straight TPS at the moment, was yours the same before you took it in for a tune?
Just weighing up time factors, wwhether or not you got yours fully re-mapped etc, so I can get a bit off the price.
Anyway I appreciate all of everyones help.
Will let you know how it goes.
Thanks.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Fri, 14 May 2004 23:53
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have u got the money for an IC now?.. if so get the IC and then tune it
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Sun, 16 May 2004 13:49
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I have got the intercooler now, but before I put the intercooler on I want to do a turbo upgrade (have got the custom manifold) all at the same time. So intercooler piping, exhaust and braided turbo lines + labour are things that I still need to get done and I dont have the money for that as yet, if I did have the money I would definetly do it all now, but unfortunetly I dont.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Tue, 18 May 2004 00:38
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mine was running from MAP, just badly tuned (they guy that had it before me did it himself and without an oxygen sensor i might add) so he started from that map and finished it off.
i would also recommend putting in the intercooler as well before taking it to get tuned though, by the sounds of it you will be taking two trips anyway fo tuning, one initial one and one later on with everything finished.
The more you can do now the better it will be and easier, the next time you get it done.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
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Wed, 19 May 2004 09:37
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I want to do the intercooler and stuff when I do the turbo, as I will have to re modify I/C piping later on. I was basically just gunna wait and do it all at once, but I relise that this will cost me a fair bit and was mainly concerned with whether this tune-up for $250 would be of any benefit for fuel consumption and power. I was thinking that the tune may save me money one fuel anyway, well I gues i will have to think about it, thanks for your help guys
Thanks.
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3TGTE - Power/fuel difference with tune up
