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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 11 May 2004 13:35
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My car was functioning perfectly until I killed the clutch. From when I originally dropped my gearbox to getting it back together last Sunday took about 3 weeks. I left the battery connected the whole time cause it was brand new, and I didnt think I would have a problem. Anyway when I first cranked the car over the battery was pretty dead, but it did fire up.
Had it idling for about 2 minutes before it suddenly cut out. Tried to start it again immediately but the battery was completely dead by this time. Put the battery on charge for a couple of hours, tried to start it again but it refused to start after cranking away for ages. Could smell plently of fuel so I thought my plugs may have fouled. Pulled them out and they were pretty black so I cleaned em up, put em back in turned car over, this time it ran for about 10 seconds before shutting down again.
Wouldnt start again so I checked my plugs, once again black so I cleaned them up, but this time the car refused to start. I then pulled one of the plugs out to check for spark, which I had, but the damn thing still wont start up after alot of trying.
My haltech is showing around 10.2-10.4 volts while cranking, could this be the problem, not enough power for the ignition to be powerful enough while cranking? Does my battery sound dead? It does have enough power to turn the car over for at least 30 seconds between needing another recharge. I don't know what else the problem could be, all I did was change the bloody clutch 
[Updated on: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:05]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Tue, 11 May 2004 13:40
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thats strange... but i have no suggestions 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Tue, 11 May 2004 14:05
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Thanks
Remind me to never modify a car again.
If it turns out to be the battery im going to beat my head on the towbar. If anyone needs their 1JZ plugs changed im an expert now, can do it in about 2 minutes 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Tue, 11 May 2004 14:22
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Did you forget to stick an earth wire back somewhere when you pulled the box out maybe??
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Tue, 11 May 2004 23:36
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Yeah checked everywhere, the most annoying thing is I actually had the car running after putting it back together. Got the vital signs fuel and spark so I cant work it out.
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Tue, 11 May 2004 23:42
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How about the alternator? I know that after my conversion when testing voltage once it started to drop below around 12V it seriously effected idle until the car would stall. This combined with a flat battery resulted in a car that would not start. Try a nice big fresh battery and see if it starts, if it does then your alternator may need a reco?
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Wed, 12 May 2004 00:04
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I second borris
First off my alternator was wired up incorrectly, didn't wire up the dash battery light properly...oops, so the car ran fine until the battery charge totally died from not starting the car often enough.
The battery was toast, as well so progressively over time the battery was being drained of power. So when it went into the shop for a week without being started (i drove everyday) the battery was dead flat, new battery, no more issues.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Wed, 12 May 2004 02:06
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Ive already had that problem guys. You know the 3 wires into the back of the alternator, well i wired them up inncorectly and my battery would drain like yours BlackSupra. Had that rectified by an auto electrician. Actually my alternator was overcharging meaning i was burning wires out, but that has been fixed too. Man it's got to be the battery, ill put a fresh one on this arvo and see how i go.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Wed, 12 May 2004 12:40
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Tried a new battery tonight and still no luck. I checked for spark again and there is plenty of that there, so this has got me stuffed. Only thing left to do now is slowly adjust trigger angle in my Haltech incase my timing has magically gone out by a mile. Where are the modified car gods, please show me the light 
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Wed, 12 May 2004 13:02
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When the battery dies, does the haltech lose any settings?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Wed, 12 May 2004 23:24
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Not as far as I know, they obviously have some sort of hard drive or memory in them to keep the maps, settings etc. Gotta be the timing, it just cant be another reason now.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Thu, 13 May 2004 00:15
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i know you said you have fuel, but have you verified that you have fuel pressure? do you have a circuit breakr or polyfuse on the fuel pump line?
for the motor to die just like that, it's got to lose either air, fuel or spark.
CYa, Stewart
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Thu, 13 May 2004 01:53
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I can hear my fuel pump whirring away (Bosch 044 pretty loud) and every time ive pulled the sparks out they have had fuel all over them. Maybe ill disconnect the fuel line from the engine and put it in a bucket and run it just to be sure.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Thu, 13 May 2004 02:23
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have you checked for spark?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Thu, 13 May 2004 04:35
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| Skip wrote on Wed, 12 May 2004 22:40 |
Tried a new battery tonight and still no luck. I checked for spark again and there is plenty of that there, so this has got me stuffed.
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Yep... looks like he has checked the spark.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Thu, 13 May 2004 04:45
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Doesn't really fit with your symptoms, but when my dad's 300zx did (not starting, then almost starting than not starting) it had dropped a tooth on the timing belt (and belt a valve - bloody interference engines  )
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Thu, 13 May 2004 13:28
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Okay i think ive found the problem.
Whenever you pull your starter off to do whatever, dont leave it hanging there by the wires, you will hurt it!!!!!!
After trying to start the car again today I felt the starter motor and it was red hot. I must have damaged something. It's chewing through brand new batteries in only short amounts of cranking, and if i can get the car running, the battery is completely drained when i try to start it again. I think ive got some sort of earth leak inside it, hence why its so god damn hot. This is more than likely making the power to the ignition extremely weak at the same time, making it hard to start. I may be seeing a spark, but its obviously not strong enough. Ill pull the starter apart tommoz and have a looksee.
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Location:
usa
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Fri, 14 May 2004 20:14
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you may have let it ground out and fried it while letting it rest against the block while you had it off ;\
lots o luck ;D
jeremy
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Sun, 16 May 2004 00:41
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| Quote: |
have you checked for spark?
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STILL cant read hey ALLEN ....its YOURSELF you should check for spark ...... its all a bit dim in there isnt it ...bright spark ...NOT 
Skip for what its worth although youve found the problem i would still change the plugs .fouled 1j plugs give these same symptoms .And we have often found that cleaning them makes them worse .Considering youve been drowning them in fuel now seems like agood time to swap to new NGK bkr6es gapped to 0.7mm .
a mate once killed his ignitor so we automaticlly cleaned plugs . with a new ignitor it started but ran like a pig . new plugs ,,,all good . Just a suggestion for after you fix the electrical issues
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Sun, 16 May 2004 08:38
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celicamad: I put a new set off NGK BKR6ES in when i did my conversion. They have only done about 400km. Get my starter motor back on Monday, had it rebuilt.
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Sun, 16 May 2004 12:49
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very good
just poi how much to rebuild starter
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up, im stumped
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Mon, 17 May 2004 04:52
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Bearings and brushes were shagged. Id say the brushes being shagged was causing alot of current to be dragged away from the ignition system when cranking. Will see if this was the problem when i put it back in tonight. Cost was $100.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 12:14
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After getting the starter motor motor all fixed, and properly charged battery I tried to start it up again, this time nothing!! The starter couldnt turn, only the solenoid was clicking in and out. So I got a spanner on the front of the engine, and it is almost impossible to turn the engine over, i was lifting the car up before the crank attempted to turn. Basically it has got harder to turn over everyday since the weekend before last when I first bolted everything back together.
So what could be wrong? I can't see how i could of set anything up wrong that would stop the motor from turning. My pressure plate is the same one I was originally using, only my clutch plate changed. What springs to mind is maybe concidentally i did some head damage before i took the clutch out, and the bore has been corroding locking the piston up. When initially firing the car up after the clutch change i must have made things alot worse. Can you hire a scope to look into the bores for damage anywhere? My oil looks perfect.
Any ideas without me doing anything drastic like pulling the head off?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 12:22
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im in the same situation,
but i have put mine down to an incorrectly fitting crank pulley preventing the crank from turning.
dont suppose you have changed it recently? 
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 13:36
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Engines generally don't seize from a clutch change.
I would be VERY tempted (in your situation) to pull the box and clutch back out and check (I do not know what) that nothing has gone amiss with the re-assembly.
Is the clutch disk the right way around? - I can't see how it would prevent the engine from turning tho.
I just think that if you've had the box out, then you need to re-trace all of the steps taken before looking elswhere.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 13:48
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STR8 2.8: Nope havent touched crank pulley, only time was to stop the motor from turning when doing flywheel and clutch bolts up.
YelloRolla: If the clutch disk was the wrong way around it wouldnt have tightened up properly. Besides as you said even if it was the motor would turn. I will check the clutch fork tomorrow, but the clutch is actuating properly so i dont think it could be causing a problem.
I think the same when retracing steps, but everything i could have or have done would not stop the engine from turning. AS far as I see it at the moment im just a victim of terrible coincidence. I could have checked to see if the engine was turning over properly a long time ago but this did not spring to mind cause I only changed the clutch, therefore ive only rechecked those things that ive removed etc. when changing it.
As ive said the car has run since changing the clutch, but the crank has obviously become gradually stiffer. Seems to only point in one direction to me -> serious troubles
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 13:51
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i would also be very tempted to pull out all the plugs and then try to turn over by hand.. hydraulic lock will stop a starter turning the motor..
if with the plugs out, you still can't turn over...
then pull box off again.... remember to disconnect battery before working on car 
hope it all goes well...
unless somethign is snafud, i'm voting for either hydraulic lock (water or petrol in cylinder) or something mechanical stopping the flywheel turning (no spare bolts??)
Good luck
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 23:17
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Stewart: Ive pulled the sparks out and tried, still no luck.
Then only thing that could stop it from turning is perhaps the clutch fork. I can turn the engne over but it is incredibily hard (just about impossible) even with the sparks out. If there was a bolt blocking something then you would think I wouldnt be able to turn it at all.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Tue, 18 May 2004 23:18
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| Quote: |
If the clutch disk was the wrong way around it wouldnt have tightened up properly
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That's not entirely true, I know someone *cough* Norbie *cough* who did this and all it did was make a horrible noise and make it mighty hard to get the car in and out of gear
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 01:52
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Well in my case the clutch plate has major issues with the flywheel if put in back d front. Suppose it all depends on your setup.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 02:07
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id pull the box off then try and turn the motor over....
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 06:20
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umm stupid stupid question...
it's not in gear with handbrake on is it?
i agree with pro-KE... drop the box off and try to turn the motor ovr... you REALLY want to isolate this problem to either gearbox, clutch, or motor...
good luck.
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 07:09
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DO NOT just keep yanking away at the crank bolt, cause u will snap the bastard,
did u have oil pressure when it kept dying.
does it turn at all or does it just move a bit and then move back, get someone to jump in with their foot on the clutch and try to crank it
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 08:09
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oldcorollas: Name mate the box is in neutral, im not that crazy.
My DOHC: I never had enough time to check for oil pressure, unfortunately it was not a thing a i thought to do cause i thought the car had electrical problems.
Yes it does move, but it requires an extreme amount of force to do so even with the plugs out.
This is my current plan off attack:
1. Check clutch fork is not causing a problem.
2. Try turning engine over with foot on clutch
3. Pull gearbox off and shimy it back and try (not as easy as it sounds with a giant transfer case hanging on the back )
4. If none of this works pull engine out
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 09:51
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i am extremely confident that if you pull the box off the back of the motor then it will turn. maybe you put the shifter in the box wrong? maybe the box is fucked? theres no reason your motor should sieze, motors sit on workshop floor for months, even years on end (with no oil too) and will still turn over.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 19 May 2004 11:41
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| Skip wrote on Wed, 19 May 2004 18:09 |
oldcorollas: Name mate the box is in neutral, im not that crazy.
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not insinuating you are but sometimes the simple things get overlooked...
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Thu, 20 May 2004 00:09
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pro ke: How could the shifter effect it? I know its in neutral cause i can push the car back and forward. Yes i did modify the shifter when the box was out, i short shifted it, but i can still move through the gears properly, so i wouldnt think this is causing any problems.
Unfortunately i didnt get a chance to look at the car last night, will do tonight and if i dont solve the problem, will post any new findings.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Thu, 20 May 2004 05:15
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Skip, the symptons you were having before the motor 'seized' are the exact same ones I am having.
Car will start, and run for a few secs, then die.
I am hoping its not the plugs though, coz I just spent $160 on them, and I havent done any km's yet...
Keep me posted if you sort anything out.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Thu, 20 May 2004 08:59
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Mine definitely aint plugs, ive finally worked that out, it's as tight as a nuns nasty.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Thu, 20 May 2004 11:26
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can u turn it backwards
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Thu, 20 May 2004 12:54
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Niether way, i tried with the clutch depressed this arvo but no luck still. Ive been really slack at getting to the bottom of this, will have it figured out this weekend when ive got some spare time. Perhaps I should stop wasting it on Toymods
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Thu, 20 May 2004 15:31
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my money is on the clutch, I know you've tried all sorts of stuff. But reading your first message the car was doing fine until you changed the clutch. And a 1jz isn't gonna just seize up for no reason. clutch/clutch related.
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Wed, 26 May 2004 12:35
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dont lose hope .. i have a idea that might work .. have u played with your injectors at all ?? the seals might be leaking now .. .. never know .. causes hydraulic lock .. or overfuels it and doesnt start .. but now your eng is full of fuel it my be locked .. check that out too .. maybe this will help .. hope it does .. tell us how u go ..
ps my hilux is getting dyno'd 3rd june .. thurs .. lets see if it gets some big numbers
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Sun, 30 May 2004 13:27
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| YelloRolla wrote on Tue, 18 May 2004 21:36 |
Engines generally don't seize from a clutch change.
I would be VERY tempted (in your situation) to pull the box and clutch back out and check (I do not know what) that nothing has gone amiss with the re-assembly.
Is the clutch disk the right way around? - I can't see how it would prevent the engine from turning tho.
I just think that if you've had the box out, then you need to re-trace all of the steps taken before looking elswhere.
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Finally got off my butt and had a look at the car. While undoing the bellhousing bolts the gearbox literally popped a good 5mm off the engine, instantly freeing up the crank. So i dropped the gearbox/transfer again, while under the car shimming the box back the front driveshaft fell down and hit me in the face ouch! Lost a few pieces off my pearly whites, and got a big fat lip. Anyway with the box out nothing was immediately obvious, still couldnt work out what the problem was. Then I removed the clutch, SHIT i pulled a Norbie, the clutch plate was the wrong way around. Where or how this applied enough pressure to lock the crank up, and make the bellhousing pop off im not sure, nothing is damaged or broken, except my face 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Sun, 30 May 2004 13:35
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as long as the engines ok, thats all that matters
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Sun, 30 May 2004 14:32
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Skip,
glad to hear the engine is ok.
Maybe we all need to start wearing cricket helmets whenever we get under our cars!
Regards
Peter
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Sun, 30 May 2004 15:39
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so i was right! (read my other message further up)
no credit for the master hey? >:(
just kidding, i just whent with the same theory with computers when something goes wrong. Its usually always when you change something and go looking for other cuases for the problem.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Sun, 30 May 2004 15:42
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| Skip wrote on Sun, 30 May 2004 23:27 |
, while under the car shimming the box back the front driveshaft fell down and hit me in the face ouch! Lost a few pieces off my pearly whites, and got a big fat lip.
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Good to hear that the engine is OK.
I did something similar but witha tailshaft on my Improved Production RX2 Coupe. The tailshaft wouldn't budge after undoing the bolts. After a little persuasion with a long screwdriver, out it popped. Luckily my head stopped it from hitting the ground. The end of it lobbed right above my eyebrow. It hurt so much I couldn't even swear for 20 minutes {smiles cvery hearttily as he types}. Funny as fuck now, but wasn't then..
ANyway, good to hear that it's just a clutch
Cheers
michael B
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1JZ won't fire up. New Info: I think engine has seized
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Sun, 30 May 2004 23:33
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| dingaling wrote on Sun, 30 May 2004 23:39 |
so i was right! (read my other message further up)
no credit for the master hey? >:(
just kidding, i just whent with the same theory with computers when something goes wrong. Its usually always when you change something and go looking for other cuases for the problem.
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Thankyou dingaling.
At least cars dont get viruses like computers.
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