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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 15 May 2004 10:34
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I have just purchased a Garrett T51S in japan, I am thinking about putting it in my JZA70, and I am struggling to find much info on this particular turbo on the internet. Does anyone know what they are rated at ? or much about them ? Are the related to the HKS T51R ? Any info appreciated.
Thanks guuys.
Kristian
Japanese Import Parts
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 15 May 2004 11:39
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its not the "SPL" version?
i know 3037 etc came in "S" models
T51R's are rated from 800hp - 1000hp
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Location:
Behind you
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sun, 16 May 2004 07:54
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| EMP-2TG wrote on Sat, 15 May 2004 21:39 |
its not the "SPL" version?
i know 3037 etc came in "S" models
T51R's are rated from 800hp - 1000hp
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Wow.
Thats kind of scary.
SUPRA MAN, where are you hoping to hit boost at?
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Location:
Wollongong, NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sun, 16 May 2004 12:54
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Do a search in jza70 forums a guy in US has fitted one one these . made Huge power but didnt see boost until 5000 rpm. im pretty sure he was hitiing it with NOS in the end .
cant remeber i think username was suprabob or similar ...it was a while ago . Anyway if you can find him he may be able to give more info ....
correct me if im wrong but arnt these NOT a Roller bearing model
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sun, 16 May 2004 13:14
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these can come as both roller bearing and non roller bearing
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 00:08
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I bought it cause it was so big. I really dont know if I will end up using it or not, but hey, it cant hurt. I will have no lag at all, cause my 1JZ will be set up a special way to completely eliminate all lag. I will have power from 1RPM right through till redline. Obviously, there will be more power from 5000rpm onwards when the turbo kicks in.
Anyone know what one of these turbos is worth ?
And no, it isnt ball bearing, but who cares, with that much power it doenst really matter.
I also heard of a 2JZ supra putting out 500kw at the wheels with one of these.
Kristian
Japanese Import Parts
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 03:16
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ok i wrote a big reply but it didnt get posted 
ive done so looking round and found a few thing
T51S has been superseeded 4 times (T51R, T51SPL, T51Kai) so i getting alittle old now, they were rated at around 700ps (from what i can find anyway) ive seen the on 13b. 20b. rb26. 3sgte so far, there all plain bearing as u said yours was
dunno if it helps but 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 03:47
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sweet, thanks mate.
Not sure yet how it will all turn out on my 1JZ, but its a sure way to hit 300kw at the wheels I'd say 
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 04:51
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haha np im bored...
yeah easy 300 id say  it would be fun, do it 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 12:39
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I got a few ideas, and plan to throw a few new techniques out there to the toymods community that havent been used much before, if at all. Not keen to divulge any secrets yet, but lets just say that 300kw at the wheels should be a walk in the park, with my complete hi boost, anti-lag system set up. This is a street car, not a drag car, although I do like a good run on the dyno every now and then
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 13:41
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be interesting to see how long the turbo lasts with anti-lag!
Allan
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 13:41
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Supraman . i know anti lag is a great concept .but dont forget how hard it is on turbos . .and especially catalytic conveters .
with an anti lag sytem the turbo life is reduced by massive proportions . But if you get the turbo cheap enough then i guess its all worth it .
dont get me wrong it works allright we set up a mates motec system .with the anti-lag running it ROARED .sounded awesome .
cant really compare times it just fried tyres and eventuelly his clutch but was still fun .
Id compare the price to a new gt35/40 (700h.p)at $2200 they make 300kw at the wheels on a stock 1j with 15 psi boost .
with full boost by 3500 rpm
im certainly not Bagging your idea its a big turbo and will make big dyno numbers .But LAG will be a MAJOR issue .and if youve ever heard an antilag sytem running youd be keeping that for the drag strip or trafiic light runs .
its just if your palnning a street car then lag is a Major consideration
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 17 May 2004 13:43
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The beauty of it, is that this isnt a normal anti lag system like the rally cars run, just a way to produce a shit load of power right through the rev range......
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 09:26
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Bottle it and send me some.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 09:32
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| Special Ed wrote on Thu, 20 May 2004 19:26 |
Bottle it and send me some.
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Or you can have it fitted to your car......... anyone got any ideas yet what I am talking about ??
It will be on my car in a few weeks if people want demonstrations
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Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 12:05
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Supercharger + Turbocharger.... i'd be right... right?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 12:49
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Maybe small turbo and big turbo with a valve that redirects the exhaust gas at a certain point?
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 13:18
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not anti-lag tho is it?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 17:40
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| -==L=a=N=c=E==- wrote on Thu, 20 May 2004 22:05 |
Supercharger + Turbocharger.... i'd be right... right?
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Yes, You would be very right.
We have already had one fitted to a customers car....
think about it...... If enough people really get serious and go for it and fit them to their cars, I think this could be the next big thing for turbo charged cars.
I sell 1GG 2L Turbo chargers for roughly $250.
Put them on a 2.5L 1JZ, and run them only to 4,000 rpm in first gear(when the big turbo kicks in) then you have an awesome set up.
You have 10psi STRAIGHT AWAY, as soon as you hit the throttle. You have the super charger set up to switch of at your exact point that your big single hits boost. These super chargers work like an A/C system. Just switch on, switch off. Set them up similar to a shift light system - except they switch of at the desired RPM, not on like the shift light, very easy to set up.
Then, your big single takes you all the way through to redline in all the gears.
remember, the super charger is only needed in first gear till you hit 4000 RPM, then the turbo charger does the rest in the top of 1st gear, and through every other. If for somereason you are in another gear, at low revs, and need boost quickly, hit the super charger button to get instant power untill the magic 4000 rpm when your turbo kicks in.
With an outlay of roughly $250 for a supercharger, and roughly $800 to $1000 for set up and installation, you have just made a laggy drag car into a very quick street car- at all revs - in all gears. I will have this system set up on my own 1JZ, but I urge everyone who reads this to think about it, and if you are keen, do it to your own car. I am open to any critism and ideas that people may have. What do you all think ???
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 22:58
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i may be wrong here but isnt that just a twin turbo sequential setup
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 23:26
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Is the supercharged air intercooled? If so there must be some creative pipework in the engine bay.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Thu, 20 May 2004 23:35
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this is not a new idea....
there was an hks twin charger kit made for the 4a-gze, a few on club4ag have done it, but you should see their engine bays.....
The main problem is getting them setup right from what I have heard and there is alot of messing around. Better just getting a correctly sized turbo.
But I say go for it and let us know how it turns out. Would be awesome if you get it going correctly.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 00:16
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Also the supercharger causes a large restriction in the inlet path, so you need a big fuck off by-pass valve and LOTS of pipe and hoses and yeah issues!
you will need a good ecu with a few aux out's and plenty of fab work done, but you will be able to seriously over drive the supercharger if the turbo kicks in around 4000rpm 3:1?? (12000 redline for the blower if i remember correctly)
Interesting alternitive to just puting a 3ltr in like a 2jz... or maybe 1fz-fe
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 00:22
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Yep, there are alot of issues that have to be cleared up, but it is an idea that I am intersted in trying. I had heard that it was tryied on the 4AGE, but I want to see how it will go on a bigger engine, like the 1JZ or 2JZ.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 00:32
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| Allan wrote on Fri, 21 May 2004 09:46 |
Also the
Interesting alternitive to just puting a 3ltr in like a 2jz... or maybe 1fz-fe
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You'll need a hell of a boonet scoop to fit the 1fz-fe in there! Or just cut a big hole in the bonnet and let the top 20cm of the 1fz-fe stick out! Even in Sean's crown the oil filler cap sticks out the bonnet 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 00:42
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Sure, you can do it. There's nothing very academic about it and with a good ECU you could even make a map that turns the blower on and off at different points for differing conditions rather than rather simplistic rpm cutoff switch.
There has only ever been one successful twincharged car, the Lancia Delta S4. This speaks volumes.
Nevertheless, I'd be interested to see such a thing.
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 01:35
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ohhh.
I was waiting for a good idea....
Anyway, you spend $5000 making it work, and I'll spend $5000 on my jza70, the conventional way.
And we'll race.
I'd love to get my but kicked by such a contraption - but i dont think it will happen.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 01:56
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The hks twin charger kit for the 4agze doesnt bypass the turbo air straight into the manifold, doesn't it still have to pass through the supercharger? Yes? No?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 02:17
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LOL i'm sure i'm now the last person you will want to listen to about this but.... 
twin charge has already been done by toyota.
it has already been done by many people.
it's a good idea in theory
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I am open to any critism and ideas that people may have.
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i hope so
where do we start....
it IS an academic problem. you have two sources of air. one is slow to start, the other is suddnely switched off.
you can run them with SC blowing into turbo, turbo blowing into SC, or parallel.
for my money, the best results will come from parallel setup.
idea being that the SC provides constant boost, and when turbo comes up to speed, it takes over, right?
it's not all about boost, it's about flow. with SC making sayy 14psi, when turbo is making 14psi, thats just the pressure in the inlet manifold, and is not relative to flow. when the SC turns off, the pressure will plummet and you have a massive dip. the turbo is still spinning, but if it's too big, it can 'fall off' and thats baaad.
we can go into numbers for arguments sake but i cbf right now.
and remember that with 1 bar SC boost, you are only doubling the engine capacity. how much capcity is needed to spool the turbo into it;s efficiency region?
what you NEED to do, is have a system that progressively changes from SC to turbo. what you WANT is for the turbo to be flowing enough air, at a high enough pressure, to make it worth swapping... if you have the SC running full, and turbo equalling the pressure, the turbo has almost ZERO airflow.
so. throttle the input to the SC, so that as presure in the manifold rises above a set limit, the SC pushes less air.
throttle the output of the turbo, so that when it is not up to pressure, air is not blown backwards thru it... you can also throttle the turbo inlet so it initially spools faster (since it has less resistance as it's not actually pushing air)
you go thru three stages.
SC pushing full amount of air.
SC and turbo providing half the required air each
turbo providing full amount of air.
this way you never have the dip that EVERYONE seems to get from twin charging... all you need is a way to control the throttles based on pressure differentials. ie a stepper or PWM controller... OR you can use manifold pressure, a few PWM IAC valves, and normal wastegate actuators.
anyhoo, i have crunched some numbers, and i have a nice design to implement, but for me it's not worth the effort... it is a lot of stuffing around for minimal gains... the main problem will always be the turbo size.
on a drag strip, you have time to spool the turbo.
on the road, if you have a fuckoff big turbo, that NEEDS an SC to spool it up, what happens at part throttle? twin charge is great for WOT acceleration, but what makes and breaks a system like this is the transient response.
you also need to consider switching points, when the SC kicks in and out based on what parameters, and also... something that most ppl don't consider... is the SC's inertia when switching on... it's a pretty solid little thing
anyhoo, just a few ideas (as always)
if you have come up with a better way, i'd be very interested to hear more about it... i can't say i'm keen on the whole "wow i've found this awesome snake oil" stuff..
everyone has twin charge ideas at sometime not many ppl go thru with it...most falter at the design stage, and those who get past that start to think.. wow thats a lot of weight and complexity for what?
surely a later generation turbo (more efficient, faster spooling) would be a more viable option? Norbies car seem to have best of both worlds.....
Cya, Stewart
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 02:25
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| oldcorollas wrote on Fri, 21 May 2004 10:17 |
"wow i've found this awesome snake oil"
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ROFLMAO!!!
Sorry, private joke between Stew and I!
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 02:53
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seems like a good idea in theory but personally I would just get a small shot of NOS to small up a big turbo like that.
I want to see this race between Special ED & Supraman though so do it! Then wheneven I get $5000 to spend on my 1jz, can I join in to? Although my car is quite a bit lighter than yours.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 08:47
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| Special Ed wrote on Fri, 21 May 2004 11:35 |
ohhh.
I was waiting for a good idea....
Anyway, you spend $5000 making it work, and I'll spend $5000 on my jza70, the conventional way.
And we'll race.
I'd love to get my but kicked by such a contraption - but i dont think it will happen.
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Its ok, I'll beat you now if you like
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Fri, 21 May 2004 08:50
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I know the idea has been used before, but as far as I know, the only 1JZ with it done is my customers car, and it is nearly finished. I'll wait to see his results and let you all know.
It might work, it might not. there's only one way to find out... try it.
Dont be scared by saying it is too hard. If people said that all the time, we wouldnt get anywhere.
Like I said, its just something I want to try
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 00:16
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Better still, just go get some timeslips.
I already got mine.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 00:37
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Fair call, I asked for that didnt I
What did your JZA70 run ? And is it Auto or Manual ?
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 00:55
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Its a 5 speed, and it has run a 13.41 @ 108mph.
There are excuses but noone would want to hear them.
13.41
And will be back soon to better it.
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 00:59
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FWIW, it hasnt been dyned recently but it ran only 2 MPH slower (at worst) than Andy, who now has about 290rwkw.
I honestly beleive you need that much power to do a 12, OR serious weight reduction OR slicks.
Take your pick.
I want a 12 from mine before I go big single, just need a new clutch. You got any twin plates coming in Kristian ? for 1j with R154 box ?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 02:53
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| Special Ed wrote on Sat, 22 May 2004 10:55 |
Its a 5 speed, and it has run a 13.41 @ 108mph.
There are excuses but noone would want to hear them.
13.41
And will be back soon to better it.
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Great Attitude mate!!!
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I honestly beleive you need that much power to do a 12, OR serious weight reduction OR slicks.
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I chose serious weight reduction
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 03:26
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Special Ed, I havent got any now, but if you want one, it would only take a few weeks to get one.
Its all good, I just ditched the big single anyway, I am now running twin HKS turbos I just bought, with a big twin tubular manifold.
EDIT: For Sale, Garrett T51S, rated at 600-700hp (not sure)
Make an offer !!!
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Sat, 22 May 2004 08:40
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Cool, please dont take my aggresive response to mean I am seriously challenging anyone. It is only meant to encourage everyone to get out there and get some return on your investment.
We all invest (time, family , cash) too much in our cars, make sure you get enough back.
We should make a day of it, a mk111 day at the WSID, just gimme a month or so to sort my clutch.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Garrett T51S Turbo on JZA70 Supra
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Mon, 24 May 2004 01:54
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| Special Ed wrote on Sat, 22 May 2004 18:40 |
We should make a day of it, a mk111 day at the WSID
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Count me in.
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