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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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VN Vs Hilux?
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Wed, 28 August 2002 05:12
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I've decided to upgrade the diff in my Celica. As yet I have only called one place to discuss the best options. The guy I spoke to was very helpful and told me to look into either a diff out of a VN dunnydore or a diff out of a hilux! The Hilux has a stronger housing but the B/W has a stronger centre in standard form! I would have to have the B/W shortened and also have the stud pattern changed to suit, whereas if I picked up the right Hilux diff it would only need to have the stud patern changed!
One of the let downs of the Hilux diff is that the bearings are combined into the rear backing of the drum assembly which makes it difficult to change to disk brakes! Also aftermarket centres are expensive compared to the B/W items!
Has anyone got any thoughts regarding this? Anyone know the ratio of the VN centre and the TA22 centre? Any thoughts on the standard brakes on the VN?
Any help is appreciated!
Thanks.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Wed, 28 August 2002 06:41
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I used an R31 skyline rear end in mine - same as VN, but narrower and with the right stud pattern. I've said plenty about this a few times before, do a search and you should find it all - any other questions, ask away
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Wed, 28 August 2002 07:43
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Thanks mate, remember asking you lots of questions about that!
Can someone explain what pinions are? The B/W is a 4 pinion 28 spline? Am I correct?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Wed, 28 August 2002 14:55
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i have a commodore diff in mine. has pintara discs on it so i didnt have a different stud pattern. another bonus is that the discs are better and have a cable mechanism handbrake unlike some piston types
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Wed, 28 August 2002 20:24
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i know from a vn perspective, that the std vn diff is a 3.08 ratio. if you get one from a VL or standard Skyline you'll be getting a 3.45 ratio if you get one from a Silhouette i think they're 3.9 and pintara well they're 4.11.
3.08 would make your TA22 into a pig tho it would do stuff all RPM at 100kmh. i think the stock ta22 diff is 4.1?
the vn diffs are quite strong my old one in my v6 saw 240,000km with no problems ever, i put 3.45 gears from a VL in it and that helped improve takeoff, but was good as gold otherwise..
be warned tho if you look for a commodore LSD type you'll pay for it - they are very expensive second hand believe me - all commodore owners want LSD's.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Wed, 28 August 2002 22:34
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So the Pintara has a B/W?
I cant recall why the guy I spoke to recommended the diff out of the VN over the VL! Can anyone think of any reason?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 01:07
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pintara is borg warner yes.
vn diff, dunno, i know the VL diffs whined a bit but never ever heard of a VN diff whining..
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 08:03
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| faulksy wrote on Thu, 29 August 2002 12:55 AM |
i have a commodore diff in mine. has pintara discs on it so i didnt have a different stud pattern. another bonus is that the discs are better and have a cable mechanism handbrake unlike some piston types
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So you bought a commodore diff and fitted the pintara brakes? Is this correct?
Also what the difference between a diff out of a VN and out of a VL?
And is $150 for the VN diff an ok price?
I was quoted $495 from a few places for a R31 Skyline diff! This sux ass so I think I will be using a comodore diff!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
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June 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 08:50
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$150 for a VN diff might be ok. What does it come with?
Example the VL diff I got when we converted the centre in my VN to 3.45 came with the housing only - it was $100! so no rotors or calipers although it did come with axles.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 09:02
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The $150 is for eveything! Housing,center,axles,brakes and even the wheel nuts!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 11:16
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prolly not too bad then cool1..
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 12:52
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Thats good! I rang one place yesterday and I was quoted $220 for everything and I thought that was'nt to bad and then I was quoted $150 today and I thought thats great!
So whats the difference between the pintara brakes and the VN brakes? Maybe faulksy can answer this question and the one above!
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 13:35
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Only thing with buying a commodore diff is that its gonna cost a fair bit to narrow it down, and change to 4.11 gears (dont even think about 3.08!) The 3.7 and 3.889 gears from the skylines (and some VLs) are the ones to avoid - whine like strangled pigs, specially the 3.889 (skyline auto) ones. Then again, could always leave the diff stock width, and chuck some serious flares on the guards  That'd look TUFF!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 29 August 2002 20:50
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hmmm difference between pintara brakes and vn brakes, one made by holden one made by nissan 
(sorry couldn't resist that)
um, now the interesting bit, the pintara has a 4 stud pattern on the axle while the vn has a 5 stud commodore pattern. thats your main difference really - if you went the pintara option, i think they're the same PCD whereas if you go a vn option your wheels will no longer fit.
i'm not sure if the plate with the wheel studs in it that the disc bolts to - whether this could be swapped from a pintara i can't remember (been a while since i looked at a diff)
pintara diffs were also known for singing quite well my mates old GLI pintara used to howl like nothing else - so although they're 4.11 gears, they might be noisy.
its sorta of a catch 22 - do you get the vn diff and get that shortened then have 5 stud rear wheels and 3.08 gears (pinion and crownwheel can get changed for 4.11 tho) or do you get a pintara diff which might have singing gears but the right PCD which you'd have to get shortened as well?
personally i'd go the vn diff get it shortened and some 4.11 gears, but, thats just my background....
question tho - why do you want to upgrade anyway whats wrong with the stock TA22 diff? i know they have drums, but so what, why do you need discs all round? worx ok for me but then again i'd be lucky to have 50kw at the flywheel 
[Updated on: Thu, 29 August 2002 20:53]
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Fri, 30 August 2002 07:55
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I need an upgraded diff cause i'm fitting a 3S-GTE!
I was quoted $500 to shorten the VN diff, fit the the correct mounting brackets and change to the 4 stud pattern!
The reason I wanted to know about the brakes was because I was wondering if I could just get the brake calipers and disks off the pintara diff and fit them to the VN diff! This way I would'nt have to get custom drilled disks when I need to replace them!
Any thoughts on this? How are the calipers bolted to the diff?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Fri, 30 August 2002 14:54
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all i know made is when i got my diff done is that:
its a commie housing, axles and brand new 4.11 ls centre
has pintara brakes and stud pattern (same as most toyotas)
the commie diff is a borg warner 78 series same as used in also falcons, pintaras, skylines,and even things like camaros in the states. it is a widely used diff
while not as strong as the ford 9 inch it is definitely more drivible then it. thats wont drive like a pig.
it comes in a huge range of ratios. but i think 4.11 highest unless u go custom. choses from open wheeler, lsd locker etc.
good place fro price and info was central diff in vic. i found them to be heaps cheaper then any1 else i rang in australia. i was quote 1300 at the time + the supply of my corolla diff so they could make up the jig
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I supported Toymods
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Sat, 31 August 2002 02:30
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Thanks mate.
I might go down to the wreckers and just have a look to see if I can just unbolt the Holden brakes and bolt on the Pintara brakes.
I'm not too worried about the center at the moment as the car wont be drivin for a while! But While i'm on that subject, what cars could I possibly find a 4.11 center in?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Mon, 02 September 2002 16:09
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maybe the pintara but i doubt they are quite as high as 4.11. however i know you can buy they in that ratio brand new. sorry no idea on the costs was far too long ago
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 08:06
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Well I picked up a VN diff from the wreckers today and took it to the bloke thats going to mod it for me!
One thing I noticed though was the commodore disks hang over the diff a fair bit! I am worried that the shock mounts will be to close to the brakes?
Does anyone know about this?
Also does anyone know how the handbrake works on the VN diff? Stupid me did'nt look 
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 08:54
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VN use small drum inside the disc for the handbtake
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 09:12
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So it just uses a cable to pull it? 
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 09:29
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yeah just two cables from what I can remember
we put one in my brothers HQ one-tonner a few years back and it all hooked up without too much work
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 09:48
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Ok, Thanks heaps mate.
Does anyone know if the brakes of a pintara or an R31 skyline will bolt directly onto the VN diff?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 09:55
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i dont know if it is a straight forward bolt on. but it cant be that hard. all my diff i commodore expect the discs. central diffs suggested pintara brakes over commodore cos they were bigger and had a easier handbrake assembly
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I supported Toymods
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Thu, 19 September 2002 13:02
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Pintara brakes bigger? Are you sure?
The Pintara has 260x10.4mm and the VN has 279x10.5mm!
The only problem I see is the Hat type disk is too big so it over hangs the diff and gets in the road of the shock mount
Could the shock mounts be mounted a few mm towards the center of the diff more? Would this cause any problems?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Fri, 20 September 2002 06:54
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Is it also true that the TRX Bluebird is a Borgie also?
Im buying a complete wreck to strip some parts for the Clubman and if it is a B/W I might also have a decent Diff too.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Fri, 20 September 2002 07:01
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I am 98% sure that the TRX has a B/W diff!
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Location:
Townsville NQ
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Fri, 20 September 2002 11:32
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hey did you think about the ford B/W diff it come with lsd in most wagons, this is what i'm putting into my ke55 coupe, wonder if the pintara brake fit it aswell, i have seen a few vn diffs break.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Sun, 22 September 2002 00:14
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Thanks for that mate, It was an interesting read 
The only problem I see is finding an LSD center for the B/W with the correct ratio needed  This will be a real bitch
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Sun, 22 September 2002 11:47
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What ratio you need?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
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Re: VN Vs Hilux?
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Sun, 22 September 2002 13:00
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Ahhh ok I understand now.. I just did'nt know where I was going to get 4:1X gears from! I fully understand now
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