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de_rift
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Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 12:26 Go to next message
http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/Lift er%20Tuning.html


Has anyone actually done this?

Are they just as affective as buying a proper shim under bucket kit from TRD/toda?

I read a thread on here, and someone priced them at $432 to fit the 4age, which is less than a quarter of the TRD kit price...
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ed_ma61
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
$27.92 each from toyota (inc discount)

obviously you need to know what sizes you need BEFORE you order them. theyre also obviously better than SUB kits as they weigh 4/5ths of fuck all, but they cost more to adjust.

theyre an exceptioanlly good option if thats where youre headed with an all-out head build

(they also work in the 7m head - 28mm buckets)

cheers
ed
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STR8 2.8
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
off-topic:
what are the advantages of shim under buckets?
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ed_ma61
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the shims dont get ejected at high rpm by wild cam profiles
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gianttomato
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
1) Less valve train weight.
2) Allows you to run high lift cams without the shim being flicked out ( like it might in a shim over bucket setup).

What you would do is order the one that gives the most clearance and use it to measure up what spec ones you needed and then order them.

Those shimless buckets are even better than the SUB setups as they are even lighter - there is no shim.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:26]

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TerryOBeirne
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've done them on both 4AG and 3SG engines. shit of a job but cheaper than TRD/Toda. we would charge about 6 hrs at work to do them + cost of buckets. you cant really measure them up beforehand cause the arrangment is totally different. sizes are a bit of a guess until you have a handful in the head and measure them up
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Steve_Reynolds
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Tue, 25 May 2004 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You can also use Yamaha FJ1100 / 1200 buckets. Identical to toyota (yamaha prolly made them for toyota anyways)so the comp bike suppliers also have them (shim under).
I'd go toyota though as suggested above as Yamaha comp ones generlaly have to come via USA or Japan. The FJ valve springs are also a good alternative in some configurations (ie designed for high revs but lighter valves)in concert with 28mm buckets.
Cheers
Steve
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de_rift
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm looking at building a head to do over 200hp..

What should I expect to spend on the head?

$2k is about my guess
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Steve_Reynolds
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Do you mean bare head (ie porting, etc) or head including cams, valves etc?
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de_rift
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 08:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
complete job
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Youngy
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You will have to spend more than that just to get the parts to put in the head.

Expect to spend just over a grand on good cams alone.

Have a look at the gear here in US$

http://www.todaracing.com/products/toyota/index.ht ml

Cheers
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ed_ma61
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
complete +200hp 4age NA head for $2k Rolling Eyes

hmmm, me thinks not

cams = $800
valves = $300
springs = $150
shims = $500
valve seats = $100
porting/polishing = $500-1000
flow bench testing = $100
adjustable cam gears = $300
random machine work $100

assembly labour ???
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ae86drift
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i costed out the head from my 4age project (includes only head parts and labour and the RS hamada intake kit + motec)

MoTeC M4 - $2450
RS Hamada Intake Kit (20v adaprtor plate, throttles with flutes, linkages and cables) - $1600
toda 288deg cams - $800 each
toda valves train kit - $1100
toda adjustable cam gears - $500
toda head gasket - $200

valve seats - $150~
porting/polishing - $800~
flow bench testing - $150~

= $8850 ($4500 not including ecu or intake kit)

yeah, expensive, thats not including the crank, rods and pistons or the block itself

or the engine mounts or billet flywheel or install or dyno tuning or .......

you get the point...
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gianttomato
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
For that reason, I never added the receipts for the head work on the 2JZGE.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:09]

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IRA11Y
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

i costed out the head from my 4age project (includes only head parts and labour and the RS hamada intake kit + motec)

MoTeC M4 - $2450
RS Hamada Intake Kit (20v adaprtor plate, throttles with flutes, linkages and cables) - $1600
toda 288deg cams - $800 each
toda valves train kit - $1100
toda adjustable cam gears - $500
toda head gasket - $200

valve seats - $150~
porting/polishing - $800~
flow bench testing - $150~

= $8850 ($4500 not including ecu or intake kit)

yeah, expensive, thats not including the crank, rods and pistons or the block itself

or the engine mounts or billet flywheel or install or dyno tuning or .......

you get the point...



interesting stuff there, whatd you get on the dyno? pic of the dyno sheet?
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ae86drift
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ahh my friend not built yet
building soon

when its done ill get you a readout
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ed_ma61
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gianttomato wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 20:08

For that reason, I never added the receipts for the head work on the 2JZGE.


amen to burning reciepts as you recieve them...

i point blank refuse to estimate my costs of engine work
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Grega
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
amen on that
i did it once for my ta22 project and yeah, not doing it again
the missus keeps asking me how much i've spent
i keep telling her never mind

re: the headwork - flowing the head to make 200hp - yes well under 2 grand - its all the shit you've got to add to it that brings the cost up (cams, gears, springs, shims/buckets, bolts, valves the list goes on and on)
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Steve_Reynolds
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NEVER EVER let your wife see ANY receipts for engine stuff. That way, everything remains rosy and life is worth living Laughing Rolling Eyes

Seriously tho, if you want 200hp, a cheaper alternative would be to go down the GZE / turbo path (& that will still cost you $ depending on your skills with being able to fabricate the manifold etc yourself)

Both paths lead to after market ECU's.

edit: PS Ed, I sat down and added up the 'basics' for my conversion (3SGE into KE35) that was brakes and diff etc, and I nearly fainted when I hit the total button on the calculator.
Shocked Shocked All receipts now destroyed and my reply to the missus is "it's a 30 year old corolla, how much could it possibly cost anywayz?? Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:26]

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gianttomato
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 26 May 2004 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LOL!
Exactly the reply that I gave my wife about the Corona!
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FKN16V
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Sun, 30 May 2004 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry to interupt, but what sort rpm/hp/cam profile should i expect my shims to pop out, or is it a case of "depends of the quality of the motor being used, kms etc" Bigport of course.

Are they more prone to poping out in aus spec or jdm 4ag's or is there no difference.


This is a question is to gather info for all to use "search"
cause i searched a little and found nother other then "when using high profile cams, its not unusual for the shims to dislodge"

All info is appreciated.

Hows that ae86/4ag site coming along Garth, anytime soon.

Steve
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ed_ma61
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Sun, 30 May 2004 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rule of thumb is anything over 9mm lift should use shimless or shim under bucket assemblies
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william68
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Re: Do you know about these cheap 4AG shim-under-buckets? Wed, 02 June 2004 01:45 Go to previous message
ae86drift wrote on Wed, 26 May 2004 19:42

i costed out the head from my 4age project (includes only head parts and labour and the RS hamada intake kit + motec)

MoTeC M4 - $2450
RS Hamada Intake Kit (20v adaprtor plate, throttles with flutes, linkages and cables) - $1600
toda 288deg cams - $800 each
toda valves train kit - $1100
toda adjustable cam gears - $500
toda head gasket - $200

valve seats - $150~
porting/polishing - $800~
flow bench testing - $150~

= $8850 ($4500 not including ecu or intake kit)

yeah, expensive, thats not including the crank, rods and pistons or the block itself

or the engine mounts or billet flywheel or install or dyno tuning or .......

you get the point...


I might be able to help you out a bit. Like 1 grand for a pair of TODA Cam. Leave me your e-mail in PM and I'll get back to you after my exams and get some info.

Regards
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