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Registered:
May 2004
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can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Mon, 31 May 2004 15:29
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I've got a 89' AE92 csx rolla with a 4AFC engine and five speed.
i.e. 1.6 litre, twin cam, economy head, carby fed. does anyone know if this is the same block as is used with the 4AGE (16 valve) like what comes in the SX model and the 4age 20 valve? therefore, can i bolt either of these heads onto my 4afc block and run it on a carby (or two) instead of efi? would really appreciate any help on this one. 
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Tue, 01 June 2004 00:33
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same block, but different internals, ie these will need to be changed....
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Sat, 07 August 2004 14:59
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What do you mean by
"same block, but different internals, ie these will need to be changed.... "?
Cause i'm running a 4af block with a 4ag head and the only mod that i had to do was swap the 4af water pump for the 4ag pump because the belt guide on the 4af was in the way of the belt.
There are some minior differences between blocks mostly bolt locations (like theres no bolt hole for the intake support bracket).
Yes the internals are different. The crank isn't lightened like the 4ag and the pistons are of the dished variety where as the 4ag has fly-cut pistons. And you'll be stuck with the 4af flywheel. The oil pumps are the same.
Make sure the you use the 4ag head bolts as the 4af bolts are of two different lengths and neither are the same length of the 4ag bolts. If you don't have the dipstick from the 4af, you'll have to use the dipstick and its tube from the 4ag. Cause the 4ag dipstick is shorter. Never got a 4af stick with mine so i wouldn't have a clue as to how short.
But performance wise i don't really think there's much of a difference.But about the only thing that i've noticed is that the
4af-gejavascript: insertTag(document.post_form.msg_body, '', '  '); doesn't spin as quik as the 4ag but with that said i've had it dancing at 7000-8000rpm more then once.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Sat, 07 August 2004 15:56
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honestly
these days with the price of jap import engine
why would you bother
do u have the parts already
or do u have to buy them
if you have to buy them then just buy thecomnpletye engine
like i tell every one if to do the job properly costs a little bit mor ethen just save up for a few more months and do it
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Sun, 08 August 2004 01:25
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Well, what's your comp smarty?, 7.5:1  .... normal 4AGE is like 9.5:1 and I can bet you a Million yours doesn't go anywhere as well as a proper 4AGE... Oh By the way, the Lower Timing gears are a differemt size, and the cranks ARE the same weigh but HAVE a different flywheel pattern.... Go pull someone else willy. And how do I know... How about a the detail Homologation report for ARCom covering 4/7AFE of AE10# and comparisons between 4AGE and 4AGE 20V, and the cars that are fitted with them, with the result of being allowed to fit 20V's to locally available AE10# variants and being allow to race them in the ARC. And as Sideshow said, Why bother, Just buy one.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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 Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Sun, 08 August 2004 10:55
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thumbs up johnny
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Sun, 08 August 2004 12:44
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The car goes. Its got quick acceleration. And i'm happy with it till i can get the 4ag rebuilt. So why would i have to worry about the compression for?
But if your saying the motor has, or could have, 7.5:1 compression then, hell, i might even ditch rebuilding the 4ag and fit the 4af with a big-arse-whatever-turbo instead.
Lower timing gear?
Do you mean crankshaft cam sprockets? Then yes they are different. The 4af sprocket uses square cut teeth while the 4ag uses a round tooth design.
And as for the cranks. What i should have said is that i'd hazzard to say that the 4ag crank would be lighter due to its counter-weights being knive edged. And with the flywheel, i think i should have put "the 4af flywheel uses 6 bolts to connect it to the crank where as the 4ag flywheel has an 8 bolt design."
I'm not going to even bother with saying that the 4af flywheel is a little heavier cause otherwise Johnny would be grabbing for the scales as he has an anxiety attack over his willy
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Mon, 09 August 2004 07:14
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So why would i have to worry about the compression for?
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I think you should really sit down and think about that one...I'm not saying it won't run AND I was expecting the usual "Just throw a Turbo on it!" comment...
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The 4af sprocket uses square cut teeth while the 4ag uses a round tooth design.
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Depending what model 4AFE
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What i should have said is that i'd hazzard to say that the 4ag crank would be lighter due to its counter-weights being knive edged
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FYI, I did a check the FE is about 200g lighter than that of a S/T 20V!!, bet you didn't see that coming, even in the FIA homogation papers state that.So much for Knive egded...
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I'm not going to even bother with saying that the 4af flywheel is a little heavier cause otherwise Johnny would be grabbing for the scales as he has an anxiety attack over his willy
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Just because you like wack yours than most of us and it's spacker head's like you miss informing poor bastards here, who then run out spending a whole heap of cash for no reason and then I get a Phone call or email!... simple motto... Do it right first time around or don't do it at all (testing purposes exempt)ie JUST BUY THE BLOODY THING!. While I'm at it,you say your not going to say somthing and then turn around and SAY IT? Anyhow I will say you are right.... The 4AGE flywheel is around a 800g-1Kg lighter smartass... and I did even need scales to tell you that one.... Knew that many years ago. Now some for you, What are the differences between the 4AGE and 4AFE oil pumps? And if you are building a 4AGE you can then also tell me, What are the Internal differences between the FE, 88Kw, 100kw and the 20V blocks? We already know the external stuff. Since you have a GE head on your 4AFE, what brackets did you have to move/modify to fit the head? And Again WHY NOT JUST BUY ONE AND STICK IT IN? Less bullshit and hassles anyway you look at it.
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: can i bolt a 4AGE head 16 or 20 valve to a 4AFC block?
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Mon, 09 August 2004 16:08
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No need to get testy dude.
All that i'm saying is what i found when i done the swap.
I didn't move or modify any brackets. But where the intake bracket bolts to the block the bolt hole wasn't drilled it had the boss or what ever its called but no hole. From memory one bolt hole for the alternator bracket, i think, was off by about 5mm. Had nothing to enlarge the hole so i never used it.
Just as a side note the block isn't a 4a-fe its a 4a-f.
The reason i got it was because i needed a motor asap and i had limited funds at the time. I was thinking of killing my credit card and getting IRA11Y's 4a-ge block that he was selling at the time. But then i found out that a wreckers near where the car was sitting had a 4a-f motor so i showed him me wallet and he removed all the externals and gave me the block and head for about 200 bucks. I later found out the 4a-f normally sells for around 700, while the 4a-g about 500-600. If i had the money at the time i'd would have soona have gotten another 4a-g and dropped in.
For the cranks. Like i said i just made an observational guess and i wouldn't have thought that the 4a-f crank would be lighter than the 4a-g crank.
Oil pumps - i didn't go that far into checking them. I just needed the car back on the road asap. But the 88kw (which i have) has less lobes/gears/cogs (or whatever their called) over that of the oil pump for the 100kw version.
Before i started rebuilding my block i was tossing around the idea of going for the 100kw motor mainly because of the oil squirter under the pistons (the 88kw goed without), the 20mm piston pins (18mm on the 88kw) and the 42mm conrod bearings (40mm, 88kw). The 88kw piston pins are a press fitted on the rods while the 100kw version uses a floating pin and they are held in by c-clips. On the 100kw motor, is it because of a thinner head gasket or because the pistons come up higher to achieve its 10.5:1 c.r.?
As far as i know the 4a-f shares the same conrod, piston pin sizes as the early 4a-g. Except for the head gasket.
As for the compression. The 4a-g has a 9.5:1 while the 4a-f has a 9.5:1 (but hey if i'm wrong, i'm wrong) , i'm using a "g" head gasket so i can't see there being much of difference.
But like i said the reason why i did the 4a-f with the "g" head was cost and time. Hell, i even had to re-use the cambelt. And reason i'm rebuilding the ol' blue top is to keep the numbers orginal and its an every day driver with a little performance on the side that runs on ULP.
All that i wanted to do was put in my 2cents as to the differences i wasn't planning on having it turned around and say "do it". I just thought that since i did it, it would have good to say what the differences were. Incidentally i did take some photos of it all but now i'm wishing that i took more.
For something different, wouldn't going a carby setup in the ae92 be illegal or something if you had a 4a-g or 20v in the car?
[Updated on: Tue, 10 August 2004 01:05]
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