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Registered:
May 2002
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 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Tue, 01 June 2004 22:30
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Hi Guys,
I have been doing some research and discovered the Black top 20V was the only model 4AGE with QTB and air measurement via a MAP sensor.
My question is, where does the MAP sensor source it's vacuum from (where exactly does it plump into the inlet system) and the volume of air in which it taps into, is it a large volume (is it a plenum as such?
Any help would be much appreciated
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Tue, 01 June 2004 22:50
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I've never had a look at a blacktop, but, my silvertop had a small plenum running behind the throttle bodies which was used for idle control, I used this plenum for the MAP sense for my Haltech.
It's under the wiring loom between the TB's and the head on this picture:
http://www.ben.foo.cc/20v2web.jpg
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Tue, 01 June 2004 23:04
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here's my blacktop, the tube from the map sensor filter plumbs in underneath that other rail on top, I'll check the EPC as the exploded view show's it a lot better...
http://www.rollamods.com/tech/black1.jpg
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Tue, 01 June 2004 23:55
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What does the manifold look like between the throttle bodies and the head? Are there four separate and independant intakes between each throttle and inlet port or are the four ports linked in some way?
Hyperthedical; if the ports are independant, the MAP sensor could only pick up a signal from an individual port which would lead to an inacurate reading due to pulsating signal.
Is the MAP sensor plumped inbetween the throttles and the head or before the throttles? (option two shouldn't work)!
I'm trying the draw up a picture in my head...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 02:48
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You've got the 4 large runners between the TB's and the port, then out of each of them there is a small (about 6mm) pipe leading to the secondary plenum.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 03:40
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Theoretically its still possible to get pulsations with the plenum setup, so many people opt for a little inline fuel filter (new one) in order to solve that problem. Dont know if it works though, heard yes and heard no. The nipples below the throttle bodies i thought were normally used for the vacuum cannister for the brake booster.
Unless there is a second set on the Blacktop.
Ill probably tap some more nipples into the runners for the MAP sensor, and use the preexisting ones for a vac cannister.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 05:09
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The nipples under the TB's are used for some sort of emmissions control stuff, the brake booster hose is hooked up to the two outside TB's.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 07:45
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Ah ok, well if they are just nipples ill use them, bah to crappy emissions control crap.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 22:17
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Ben Wilson, is the "secondary plenum" is an external item seperate from the runners?
In stupid terms then (if the previous statement is true); each runner has a vacuum line running to an external "box" where the MAP (and maybe other items) are sourced from? Right?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 22:44
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It's cast into the manifold, but, the rest of what you are saying is true. It also has the idle air control running into it.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 02 June 2004 22:58
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Hm, all this sounds very interesting. Might bea bit different to what i thought to setup my quads.
Not terribly hard, just slightly different.
Ben: do you know if the silvertop throttles had the bit cast into the manifold too? I know they had the nipple at the bottom. But seeing as they arn't MAP i wonder if they have that plenum.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Thu, 03 June 2004 00:01
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Okay, thats great! thanks for all your input guys! 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Thu, 03 June 2004 03:20
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| takai wrote on Thu, 03 June 2004 08:58 |
Hm, all this sounds very interesting. Might bea bit different to what i thought to setup my quads.
Not terribly hard, just slightly different.
Ben: do you know if the silvertop throttles had the bit cast into the manifold too? I know they had the nipple at the bottom. But seeing as they arn't MAP i wonder if they have that plenum.
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Yes they do, they used it for idle control and aircon idle up there are a couple of other vacuum hoses coming out of it, but, I never worried about them (I was using a Haltech).
You can see it in the picture I posted near the top of the thread.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Tue, 31 August 2004 11:35
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can haltech run off a single throttles pulse?
I'm running a ems stinger and have been told it can't be done by JEM in moorebank.
can anyone clarify this for me?
Dom.
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 01 September 2004 11:27
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Heres a pic of the inside of a blacktop 20V inlet manifold.
The pics a bit shite, was in a rush but you can see the four vacuum channels machined in which then collect to one small elbow pipe. The MAP hose connects to this pipe via a small plastic valve of some sort. I've played with the valve and its not one way so it must be some sort of dampener.
You can also see where each port connects to the large vac rail on top for stuff like idle control and power steering idle up functions. Interesting how the MAP signal needed its own rail.
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Wed, 01 September 2004 11:34
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i just plumbed mine to the little pipe on the side just above no.4 TB there is like 4 pipes all different sizes and they all lead into that chamber that the pcv hose from the rocket cover leads into which has a whole in each throttle body
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5th Generation 4AGE 20V Black Top QTB, MAP Sensor'd
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Mon, 06 September 2004 08:41
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who knows what about how many gens the black top had.
cheers
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